How Do You Get Effect 'X'?

[Korwin]

@DragonDM:
Gravitation manipulation is right there in the source Material (well at least in an short story)...

For the flying, I think it would work best with summoning/binding something like an Air-Elemental to carry you.
Dont know if it would be possible to bind an Air-Elemental into an object for continued use...

[Biff Dyskolos]

Very interesting...

I am also wondering how to create spells that boost skills and abileties...

Also, could you copy effects sur as Inhuman/Supernatural STR or Toughness?


I'll sure follow this tread...

Boosting skills has puzzled me as well. I have decided it must be like a block. Normally, if you put up a block (like a shield) you still roll a defence against an incoming attack but if the block is better you use the block value instead of the roll. If the attack gets past the block then the spell ends.

You could do the same thing with, say, a Strength spell to improve your Might. You create the block, and still make your Might rolls as normal but if the block is better then use the block value instead of the roll. If the contest your in beats the block then the spell ends.

There are some issues here. A superb spell effect will be of more use to  someone with mediocre Might than it would for someone who already has superb Might . The spell just "buffers" the dice a bit.

EDIT: I originally used Stealth as an example but then I relived that was just a veil. So I changed the example to Might.

[Cajun Guy]

I have an idea how the translator spell could work. The game stated that using ectomancy you can allow yourslef to be possessed by a ghost containing a skill you lack and therfore have access. (paraphrasing here) So find a bi-lingual ghost. You might be able to temporarily bind him to a fetish and then use it for a scene based on how much juju you put into the spell after which the charge would be gone or sim,ply be possessed and have the spirit translate for you. You could use this for any type of skill. the problem would be finding and binding the appropriate spirit.

Just a thought.

Cajun Guy

[iago]

The block model is a pretty good one -- though really that's because block is a specific case of saying "I want to produce the result of a skill roll that's X good".

So when saying "I want to make my X skill better", really it's about saying "I want to create a result that mimics a use of skill X with a value of Y shifts", and Y is the power needed for the spell.  You want to instantly comprehend ancient Irdu or whatever, that's probably a few shifts of a Scholarship effect.  Or maybe it's a LOT of shifts depending on how difficult of a roll the GM believes it to be.  I'd say someone who knows every language ever is probably operating at an effective linguistic Scholarship rating of Fantastic or higher (thanks to, say, Great or Superb skill and the application of a stunt or two), so I could see determining the power rating on such a spell to be 6, adjusting higher if the language is extremely obscure, adjusting lower if it's still a living language, widely spoken, just unknown to the caster.

[SaintAndSinner]

The block model is a pretty good one -- though really that's because block is a specific case of saying "I want to produce the result of a skill roll that's X good".

Is this in the section on Block in the text?  I think that this models pretty good but (as with all the mechanics) thinking a bit outside the box gives you many, many more options.

[DragonDM]

I have an idea how the translator spell could work. The game stated that using ectomancy you can allow yourslef to be possessed by a ghost containing a skill you lack and therfore have access. (paraphrasing here) So find a bi-lingual ghost. You might be able to temporarily bind him to a fetish and then use it for a scene based on how much juju you put into the spell after which the charge would be gone or sim,ply be possessed and have the spirit translate for you. You could use this for any type of skill. the problem would be finding and binding the appropriate spirit.

Just a thought.

Cajun Guy

This is indeed something that can be done.
Just remember that, technically, it's Illegal. "Thou shall not transend the bounderies of Life."
Harry had Lash (Lashiel's Shadow), but I think that Law would apply even to the lowest of two-bit Shades.

Need some ideas on just how hard getting the right kind of Ghost? Look into Ghost lab, and related TV shows.

[SaintAndSinner]

This is indeed something that can be done.
Just remember that, technically, it's Illegal. "Thou shall not transend the bounderies of Life."
Harry had Lash (Lashiel's Shadow), but I think that Law would apply even to the lowest of two-bit Shades.

Need some ideas on just how hard getting the right kind of Ghost? Look into Ghost lab, and related TV shows.

Ghosts aren't 'alive'.  They're like memories.  Sometimes really, really strong memories that leave you wondering where the last couple of days went though...

[iago]

Is this in the section on Block in the text?  I think that this models pretty good but (as with all the mechanics) thinking a bit outside the box gives you many, many more options.

Well, hm, it's more that it's the whole "Simple Action" thing as covered on YS 264. Because spells determine the result first, instead of the normal "roll the skill, THEN see the result" way things work, the end result is a "block-like" effect in that you could always roll your normal skill alongside the Simple Action effect result, and take the better of the two.

[steven807]

I've been thinking about a "Thief with the Magic touch" (a focused practitioner, who uses magic to help his thievery).  Suppose he's got Burglary +4, Conviction +2, Discipline +3, Lore +1.  I'm trying to understand how to pick a +8 lock using a spell (i.e. by creating a Burglary +8 simple action).  [Any easier a lock, and he could just use Burglary, aided with a maneuver and a little luck.]  Of course, for dramatic purposes, I'm assuming the cops will be coming around the corner any minute!

I'm imagining that he is going to envision the careful motion of the pins in the lock (maybe aided by the Sight), then push them "just so".

At first I thought I could do it with an Evocation, since I was thinking it could be quick and on-the-fly.  But Evocations are really about combat, so now I figure it's Thaumaturgy.  But although the casting of the spell is reasonably simple (say, a few exchanges, just like on YS271), the preparation seems impossible.

I'm thinking that the spellcaster does not need a symbolic link, since the lock is right in front of him.  Perhaps his Burglary skill lets him make a declaration to get +2. Maybe a bonus or two due to a focus and stunts.  But I don't see how he can get the 7 shifts of preparation he needs to do it on-the-fly.

Am I on the wrong track here?  Or am I exactly right, and casting a Burglary +8 spell on-the-fly would require some major spellcasting ability,  more than, say, a -6 refresh could allow?  Maybe someone more junior has to find another way --  by prepping in advance, with a bit of "casing the joint" to get info (and a symbolic link)?  Or maybe he needs a set of Enchanted Lockpicks?

I'd appreciate any thoughts.  I'm impressed by the system, but a little surprised that I'm having so much trouble massaging it into the shape I'm aiming for.

[Archmage_Cowl]

For a thaumaturgical version of it I would take a burglary assessment for a +2, I would let him have a connection to it by touching it. I would let him make a discipline assessment like focused or something for a +2. And ofcourse he would get to try a lore assessment(for like a magic circle to focus the power) for another +2 thats +6 plus the 1 from his natural lore. Find a way to make another one of your skill into an assessment or play it like you said and use caseing the joint to place a scene aspect you would tag for another +2 and wala. Though it probably should be noted this is considered a full blown ritual as your character's lore is not up to the 8 necessity without prep(basicly it would take longer.)

So to make it simple 1(base lore)+2(burglary assessment)+2(discipline assessment)+2(Lore assessment)+2(Scene aspect, something related to a cased building, tagged)= 9 which is enough shifts.

I'm pretty sure thats how it would be done in the rules(meaning i dont think i added anything i house ruled into there.)

[luminos]

You could do that, but it would probably just be simpler to set up a two taggable aspects and use your burglary skill without worrying about the magic.

[DragonDM]

Wouldn't the Burglary +4 be the 'base starting' point? And then add the taggable Thieving Aspects (+2 ?), and then +2 (discipline assessment) +1 Lore skill = 9 shifts [Plus another +2 for Lore Assessment? If so, total is 11 shifts.]

Then the +2 (Scene aspect, something related to a cased building, tagged) if he had the time to case the joint?

And then +2 for using a Circle Ritual (?)

Not sure how much using The Sight would grant: I'd say at least +4 Shifts, since the person can see the True Nature of the Lock, and How It Works. However, remember that Harry is reluctant to use The Sight, because it can "Show you too much" and it's there Forever, once Seen: Good, Bad, or Otherwise. I mean, I'd rather not have every lock I've ever picked being stuck in my head, for as long as I lived.

All of these together might grant a 20 point Shift: But, of course, negative modifiers can be applied:
"Tricky Lock" or "Stuck Lock" might give -2;
"Rusty Lock" might give up to a -4;
"In A Hurry" (cops/rival thieves getting closer real fast) might give at least -2;
"Improvised Tools" (a hairpin and/or paperclip) might give at least -2;
"Missing Tools" (only using Kinetic magic to move the pins and tumblers) might give at least -4.
* So "In A Hurry" and "Missing Tools" could stack to give at least a -6 to the Shifts.
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Another thing to remember, is that in this new World, there are more Electronic Locks, which means that the use of Magic is going to cause them to 'fail' and be considered at least a "Stuck Lock" (at worst I'd see that it was a "Tricky Lock" plus "Rusty Lock", for -6), and that only mundane skills (and an Aura Suppressing Spell, ala Harry in Larry Fowler's studio - Book Five: Blood Ties) can be used. (Maintaining the spell could be a Conviction/Discipline and Concentration Test, which might also give negatives to the Lock Picking Test, because part of your attention is on maintaining the Spell.)
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Ok. Did I get close in my mental ramblings?

[DragonDM]

New post for a different Query.

I hate the fact that I can't get the books, to try and figure some of these things out.

So, there are only a few types of Magical Categories in the Dresdenverse?

True Name; Summoning; Thaumaturgy; Evocation; and Veils (Illusions).

Or are there others, as well?

After all - For me: It's difficult envisioning Telekinetic effects as anything other then Evocation.
Same with the various Wind Control spells that Harry Uses.

[Deadmanwalking]

Uh, you're right about TK and air magic. Those are definitely evocation.

As for thaumaturgy, there are more categories than you can shake a stick at, both functional (Summoning and Binding, Wards, Divination) and thematic (Biomancy, Ectomancy, Photomancy). Get a look at the book if you want a full list, but basically, you want to do something, you can theoretically do it with Thaumaturgy...though it might be quite hard and/or time consuming.

[Korwin]

There are two broad categories.
Evocation and Thaumaturgy

Evocation has the elements as subcategories (Fire, Air, etc.)
Thaumaturgy has as subcategories (Item Crafting, Summoning/Binding, Wards, Divination, did I forget something?)