Question/Thought about sponsored magic

[Saedar]

Hello all! This is my first time posting but I've been lurking for a while. I like to lurk...

Anyway! I was thinking about a character idea the other day (think Champion of Lucifer, anti-Michael) and I was wondering about the in-game laws regarding sponsored magic. I know that vampires and fae and such can use abilities that would otherwise violate the Laws (mind-control, killing and the like) but what about mortals saddled with sponsored magic? Do the Laws not apply because they come from a non-mortal source or do the Wardens still get to be all head-choppy because its a mortal making use of the abilities?

Sorry if this is a little convoluted. I will clarify if needed!

[iago]

I get your question, but the answer is really going to be decided on a game by game basis. Personally, I think you might still be vulnerable to the spiritual consequences of breaking the laws of magic (i.e., you'll find yourself getting hit with the Lawbreaker stunt/penalty thing), but I don't know if the Wardens would necessarily get involved. They might, though; I doubt the White Council has a non-aggression pact with Hell.

[Archmage_Cowl]

a possibly related question(sorry if it isnt) Could an outsider grant sponsored magic? and would the fairy queens grant sponsored magic(like to their knight) or would that be more like giving them fairy magic?

[Saedar]

Awesome! Thanks for the quick reply. I see what you mean about the spiritual consequences. I always enjoy playing characters on the...how shall we say...left-handed side of morality. Maybe a Scion or Emissary of Power could be fun.

As for outsider's handing out sponsored magic, I kind of thought that that was something Cowl and the White King (through his anti-magic resistances) had accomplished, but that may just be individual gifts or rituals. Is Faerie Magic not a sub-type of Sponsored Magic? It is listed separately on Rick Neal's page...hmm...this bears investigating.

[Archmage_Cowl]

Is Faerie Magic not a sub-type of Sponsored Magic? It is listed separately on Rick Neal's page...hmm...this bears investigating.

My thoughts exactly lol 

[Deadmanwalking]

Is Faerie Magic not a sub-type of Sponsored Magic? It is listed separately on Rick Neal's page...hmm...this bears investigating.

I'm pretty sure it is, but listed seperately as a notable example, just like being Summer or Winter Knight is a specialized form of Emissary of Power but listed seperately.

[iago]

Yep. We list Seelie and Unseelie Magic as separate named abilities even though they work just like Sponsored Magic (and essentially are Sponsored Magic). It makes sense to split that sort of thing out explicitly occasionally in the powers list due to the frequency that that particular variety of magic is encountered.

[Ancalagon]

Actually, that raises an interesting question - why aren't the Wardens more active about fighting the Denarians?  Many of them (meaning the human hosts) are sorcerers in their own rights, and I am certain they are breaking the Laws of Magic... just look at

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cassius/liver-spot

[iago]

Actually, that raises an interesting question - why aren't the Wardens more active about fighting the Denarians?  Many of them (meaning the human hosts) are sorcerers in their own rights, and I am certain they are breaking the Laws of Magic... just look at

(click to show/hide)

cassius/liver-spot

They're not really... people... any more. And the Knights of the Cross are in the field specifically to combat the Denarians. I'd imagine they'd help out once in a while, just like the Knights help the Council, but it's not their "beat", to use cop parlance.

[SoulCatcher78]

Actually, that raises an interesting question - why aren't the Wardens more active about fighting the Denarians?  Many of them (meaning the human hosts) are sorcerers in their own rights, and I am certain they are breaking the Laws of Magic... just look at

(click to show/hide)

cassius/liver-spot

(click to show/hide)

They are also (as a group) covered under the Accords so could be considered a seperate group as far as magic is concerned (like the Seelie/Unseelie).

[Saedar]

@SoulCatcher78: But by that logic, you could consider that Gard, being technically one of

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Marcone's people

would be protected from Warden-based justice through his being

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a Signatory to the Accords

.

I love this... Why oh why did I not join sooner....?

[SoulCatcher78]

@SoulCatcher78: But by that logic, you could consider that Gard, being technically one of

(click to show/hide)

Marcone's people

would be protected from Warden-based justice through his being

(click to show/hide)

a Signatory to the Accords

.

I love this... Why oh why did I not join sooner....?

(click to show/hide)

Sigurn (sp?) is a member of Monoc securities whose CEO is also a freeholding Lord and signatory not to mention her "Chooser" title and affinity for Wagner I would say that she is considered "outside" the Laws of Magic.

The Laws (and enforcement of them) seems to be limited to mortal practitioners as far as I can tell.  Magic using beings who are not considered human do not fall into the Wardens area of responsibility (they might not like it but unless these beings confront them directly, I doubt that a Warden would try to stop them). 

[Saedar]

Good point. I keep forgetting about the Valkyrie issue.

On a related issue to my OP, how would you handle a (PC) non-human Emissary/Scion/Champion/Something of Lucifer tossing around power of a distinctly hellish nature but not on the level of, say, the Denarians?

[srl51676]

it would all depend on the source of power and the nature of the character. I would say humans not protected by a patron who is a signatory of the accords are by default under the preview of the council. If for no other reason than no one is going to stop the wardens and they see it as their duty. As there is not "Spirit" of the accords anyone not specifically protected is fair game to any power willing to attempt to exert control. If lucifer in your game is a signatory, which he must be the guy loves a contract, then any agent of his "mortal" or otherwise would be outside of the wardens jurisdiction in their law enforcement capacity. This does not mean that if you are messing with mortals they would not drop the heavy end of the hammer on you in their capacity as protectors of humanity just like they would a rouge demon or a rampaging troll. The cops do not arrest rabid dogs when they attack they just shoot them.

[SoulCatcher78]

I would say humans not protected by a patron who is a signatory of the accords are by default under the preview of the council. If for no other reason than no one is going to stop the wardens and they see it as their duty. As there is not "Spirit" of the accords anyone not specifically protected is fair game to any power willing to attempt to exert control.

Great explanation.  Consider it stolen.