Dresden Files: Series Timeline

[AcornArmy]

June 18 -- A rain of frogs, Harry makes his deal with Mab, the Council meeting is held, and Elaine returns.

I would like to make a small and mostly insignificant correction: this should more accurately be called "a rain of toads."

Not that it matters, but toads just seem more ominous somehow.

[Oddball]

Vignette takes place before murphy got demotioned sergeant in wn

[LogicMouseLives]

I may very well be making too much of real info, given how Jim likes to play fast and loose with things, but I'm re-reading Dead Beat (for the umpteenth time) and I just noticed that there are very subtle references indicating that all three days of the case must be occurring on weekdays.

Day 1(Oct 29): Harry gets Mavra's letter in the mail. Mail service not available on Sundays.
Day 2 (Oct 30): Harry comments while running around town looking for Necromantic hotspots that "I felt a brief flash of gratitude that things usually went to hell during the work week. If this had been a Sunday with the Bears at home, I'd have had to park and then backpack in from Outer Mongolia." (DB 125)
Day 3 (Oct 31): While running around town during the blackout Harry comments "Traffic wasn't as bad as it could have been. It looked like the commuters hadn't poured into town in the usual volume." (DB 253)

So that means (if I'm not reading way too much into it) that DB could not have occurred in 2004 (Oct 31 is a Sunday), 2005 (Oct 31 is a Monday), or 2006 (Oct 31 is a Tuesday). In 2003 the 31st was a Friday, in 2007 it fell on Wednesday, so those would be the best options for the 'real life' year of ASF 5 given the other info we've got.

Not quite sure how much to make of this, as I said.

LML

[Priscellie]

Excellent leg work, LogicMouse!  I'm pretty sure Jim's mental timeline isn't that precise, though.

[LogicMouseLives]

Excellent leg work, LogicMouse!  I'm pretty sure Jim's mental timeline isn't that precise, though.

Yeah, prob'ly not.  Thanks for the kind words.

LML

[Chuck Chuck Razool]

2007 makes sense. We know that SF is post y2k.

 

[Quantus]

So I've been trying to pin down a time frame for the original Merlin for a while now, but Im not getting very far.  Check my logic and see if I missed anything.

Merlin stories (and arthurian legends by extension) can vary in time from a few hundred AD up to almost 1500 (when chivalry was in high swing), basically the entire span of the middle ages.  The first actual reference to the character was in Geoffrey of Monmouth's Historia Regum Britanniae, written c. 1136. A historical Arthur could have been as early as 6th century, but the commonly known legends were 12th century and later. That's wikipedia stuff, but it got me wondering what time the Dresden Merlin was around.

In the Dresdenverse here's what we know:

-McCoy has journal lineage to the Merlin totaling "more than a thousand years" worth (TC)

-McCoy averages 1 journal/century, and others did 3-4 in their lifetime, but only has 2 from Merlin

-Merlin Founded the current incarnation of the White Council and wrote the 7 Laws, along with acquiring Ed­in­burgh from the sidhe. (Changes)

-Ed­in­burgh has been the headquarters of the Council for a little under 500 years. (TC, might warrant an entry in the timeline all its own)

-Merlin had Amoraccius for a bit (PG)

-Amoraccius has never been reworked, unlike the other two swords

-The merlin's end is unknown



So far that that marks out a window of maybe 800 AD to 1500, and tragically unhealpful unless he was somehow longer lived than any wizard we know of (Ancient Mai being the top at just over 400).   
 
Thats the best I can get for now.  If we make some assumptions, like that he moved HQ to Edinburgh right when he restructured everything, that the cruciform Amoraccius has been that way since Merlin had it (such swords didnt exist in that part of the world until 11th century, and not popular until the crusades of 12-13th century), that Merlin was no more long lived than other wizards (or at least disappeared before it got noticed, giving him maybe a 500 span max of active time, or that Geoffrey of Monmouth's account of Merlin exists in the DV, we can narrow it down a bit further, but not much. 

Those are the basic circles I keep working myself around in.  It bugs me because this little detail seems to be common knowledge to the characters, but we're still int he dark.  I was hoping the RPG books (beta Download available when you preorder!!)  would mention it somewhere and shed some light without dragging down a particular story,  but no dice that I've seen 

Thoughts?

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

Thoughts?

That what makes most sense to me is the original Merlin spending long periods of time asleep in a cave or tree (as per legend) or somewhere in the NN where time runs differently.

[AcornArmy]

It seems like the most troubling assumption is that Merlin was still around and acting as the Merlin when the White Council HQ moved to Edinburough. That doesn't have to be true. Merlin could have left ownership of the area to the White Council, and they could have decided to move there centuries later. The Council seems kind of slow to change, and moving the HQ from wherever it was(Rome, maybe?) to Edinburough would be a pretty big one. It might have taken a couple of centuries for them to decide do relocate.

And if that assumption is taken out of the picture, then Merlin's timeline could hang somewhere within 200 years of 1000 AD without clashing with wizard lifespans.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

It seems like the most troubling assumption is that Merlin was still around and acting as the Merlin when the White Council HQ moved to Edinburough. That doesn't have to be true. Merlin could have left ownership of the area to the White Council, and they could have decided to move there centuries later. The Council seems kind of slow to change, and moving the HQ from wherever it was(Rome, maybe?) to Edinburough would be a pretty big one. It might have taken a couple of centuries for them to decide do relocate.

If they had a huge cool fortress and didn't move into it on a scale of centuries, I'd be interested to know the reasons, because I'd presume there'd have to be reasons of some sort.

[Curly]

If they had a huge cool fortress and didn't move into it on a scale of centuries, I'd be interested to know the reasons, because I'd presume there'd have to be reasons of some sort.

It could be as simple as them having a huger cooler forteress somewhere else.

Although it does seem like the Council have a habit of moving into areas of religious conflict, Harry says they were in the Vatican in the early days of the Church(I presume he means the area and not the Vatican established by the Lateran Treaty), they then move into Scotland just when Protestant/Catholic tension is starting up.

[AcornArmy]

If they had a huge cool fortress and didn't move into it on a scale of centuries, I'd be interested to know the reasons, because I'd presume there'd have to be reasons of some sort.

It's not hard for me to imagine the White Council being slow to inhabit a new headquarters. The older members have most of the political clout in the Council, and in general they are more conservative. Why move to some big, snazzy new headquarters just because it's there? Especially when their pre-Edinburough HQ presumably already had lots of protective wards and established routes through the Nevernever, and was the place everyone was used to?

Given a couple of centuries for the younger members to gain control of the Council, though, and they would eventually see that a move was for the best.

[Quantus]

It's not hard for me to imagine the White Council being slow to inhabit a new headquarters. The older members have most of the political clout in the Council, and in general they are more conservative. Why move to some big, snazzy new headquarters just because it's there? Especially when their pre-Edinburough HQ presumably already had lots of protective wards and established routes through the Nevernever, and was the place everyone was used to?

Given a couple of centuries for the younger members to gain control of the Council, though, and they would eventually see that a move was for the best.

True.  Though remember this is the same guy who wrote and enforced the Seven Laws of Magic, (re)founded the White Council.  That could have left them primed for change, unlike the much more settled version of the council we see now.  And he couldn't have done all that without some pretty big clout politically and otherwise, enough to get people moving.   And in less the peaceful times, sitting on one of the largest ley line convergences in the world aint bad either.  Power is always a good motivator. 

[Praeceps]

Since the timeline thread is locked, I created this thread for additions/changes to the timeline thread (as well as to notify people that we need a new timeline thread).

Needed changes list:

~1436: Vlad Tepesh, father of Dracula, is born.  He is a half-mortal like Kincaid, and he is formidable, dangerous, and cruel.  Kincaid, called the "Hound of Hell" or the "Hellhound," serves as his right arm for centuries.

Vlad III, known as Vlad Tepes, is better known as Dracula. The father of Dracula is Vlad II, who was known as Vlad Dracul (or as it is spelled in the Dresden Files, Drakul). Thanks to Aluman for posting this originally. Also as Landing put it, "we don't know if that is the actual date of his birth in the dresdenverse. He could have been born a thousand years before but just told that as his birth date to the mortals. " I thought changing it to say "The date mortal history says Dracula was born" would be better.

Also, Thomas's last involvement with the Oblivion War before Backup (8 years before), should probably be mentioned.

This might be in here already (23 pages + lazy me = no research:

Quote
~44-52 BSF:  Michael is born.  
~31-37 BSF:  Charity is born.  Dates are VERY approximate, but I'm working on narrowing it down.

that puts them at 13-15 years apart in the timeline but The Warrior has this line:
"Charity answered the door when I knocked, She was of an age with Michael...."
That might insinuate that Charity and Michael are closer then 13 years apart in age. It's not much help, but it's something?

4ASF Murphy begins teaching Harry to stick fight.
From Heorot:
"I don’t think Caine knew much about quarterstaff fighting. Murphy had been teaching it to me, however, for almost four years."

1959 (≈41 BSF) Rate of pay for wardens is set.

“I thought you were getting another paycheck now.”

I sighed. “Yeah. But the rate of pay was set in 1959, and the Council hasn’t given it a cost-of-living increase since. I think it comes up for review in a few more years.”

“Wow. That’s even slower than City Hall.”

The Red king is about 4000 years old, making his birth/rebirth at around 2000 bc

The White Council moved their headquarters to Edinburgh in the "just under five hundred years" ago, putting it in the mid 1500's

At least 25 BSF Susan Rodriguez is born. She's the only one old enough to rent a van in Fool Moon.

Jim confirmed at last night's signing that Harry is "about one year younger" than Jim, which would put him at 37.  Coincides decently well with our timeline.

This was posted on April 10, 2010 so it is most likely referring to his age during Changes.

June 18 -- A rain of frogs, Harry makes his deal with Mab, the Council meeting is held, and Elaine returns.

I would like to make a small and mostly insignificant correction: this should more accurately be called "a rain of toads."

The Dead Beat entry says Halloween whereas it should say starting on the 29th. Thanks to LogicMouseLives. He also posted a fascinating pinpoint of the year that is based off if was Jim taking into account what day is what date in what year in the original timeline thread.

I'm not sure if this one is important enough except in a timeline of Luccio's life but during the Camp Kaboom segment Luccio says "it had been a hundred and forty years since I'd put up with either sexual desire or a monthly cycle."

For the date of the Camp Kaboom segment:

"I went out to New Mexico this spring."
"Why?"
Helping Luccio train baby Wardens,"

And on the next page:

"So we spent about two days turning thirty acres of sand and scrub into glass. Then a couple of the Read Court's ghouls showed up and killed two kids."

I've been reading over the timeline closely and the individual timelines need to be updated from the information in the main timeline. For example, Harry and Murphy's ages have been established for Storm Front but their timelines don't reflect that. Furthermore, Harry's exact day of birth needs to be added to his timeline.

Also, if Harry was born in 1972 then we know the exact dates that everything happened since we have his exact age (25) when Storm Front took place. That puts Storm Front in 1998 (taking Harry's birthday into account) which is a little strange given that in the first chapter Harry spoke of the turn of the Millennium in the past tense.

Correction: I was looking up where Harry's birth year was given and realized that it is based off Jim's comment that Harry is about nine months younger than he is. That doesn't necessarily mean Harry's was born nine months after Jim. It could simply mean that Harry is Jim's current age minus nine months during Changes. Since we don't know the exact date of the books that doesn't tell us much since a variable minus a constant is still a variable. For example if a book was set in the Forgotten Realms, both the character and the writer could be the same age (both being 29) even if the character was born in 1374 DR and the writer in 1982 C.E..

Anyways, things that indicate a specific time for The Warrior:

Main Identifiers
-It is the end of softball season (though it doesn't specify it is a regularly timed softball season).
-It takes place between Small Favor(November, 8ASF) and Last Call (March, 10ASF)
-Harry gives the time between it and the end of Small Favor to be at least year (Side Jobs 217) or months and months depending on the estimate.

Other Possible Identifiers
-Charity is old enough that "her golden hair hid fairly well any strands of silver that might have shown."
-It is warm enough to be playing with a soccer ball outside and moderately temperatured enough for Dresden to not mention the temperature except to mention that during the night it grew cold enough for the water (on the grass that was from the rain) to make his socks uncomfortable.
-Harry is old enough and familiar enough with Harry to climb on him.  
-The girls in Alicia's age group are of an age where Harry calls them girls and then corrects himself and calls them young women (he guesses).
-It's construction season and they are just putting up the house's frame.
-It is warm enough to be wearing shorts (Side Jobs 244)

Note there is another relevant quote I just found on the time between The Warrior and Small Favor.

"Months in bed and more months in therapy had left him a shadow of himself, and he had never added all the muscle back on."

So this muddies the issue on whether he experienced months in bed before a year of therapy, the second time the year of therapy includes the months in bed, or even if the time between it is months instead of a year since the year could just be rounding up.

If it is at least a year between Small Favor and the Warrior then it takes place between November of 9ASF and March of 10ASF. However, we know that it has to take place at the end of a softball season (even if it might be an irregularly timed one) and during a time where it is warm enough to wear shorts (nor at extreme enough temperatures for Harry to comment on it). So it is extremely unlikely to be any time between those two dates and thus Harry has got to be rounding on the estimate of a year.

The identifier in Side Jobs says Aftermath takes place an hour or two after the end of Changes, instead of the 45 minutes which Jim stated it was. Since the hour or two is the most recent estimate and 45 minutes was stated iirc while he was still writing, the hour or two is more likely to be the correct one.

The last major loup-garou rampage happened around Gevaudan, France, back in the sixteenth century.

Hey Dresdenites,
I've been trying to place AAAA Wizardry into the Dresden chronology, and here's what I have so far:

7 ASF, May- White Night. The Paranet is formed soon after.
8 ASF, circa May- earliest time for the flashback from AAAA.  Dresden mentions the Paranet existing for a year.
9 ASF, circa May- the earliest Harry's narration to the young Wardens can occur, since it takes Megan most of a year to recover from the events of the flashback.
11 ASF, October- Changes- the story logically takes place before here due to said novel's events.

So our range is somewhere between the short story Backup and Changes.  In other words in the range of these dates (and novels),
*November 8 ASF- Small Favor, predating the narration.
*May 9 ASF- earliest date of Harry's narration.
*Summer 10 ASF- Turn Coat
*October 11 ASF- Changes

Can anyone (shy of Jim himself, who is also welcome to respond ) narrow this down further?

Alright, let's use other details.  I couldn't find any weather mentions, the comments in the sidebar from Harry and Billy mention it in context of being a casefile.  That is, the DFRPG, as evidenced through comments about Morgan and such, is written in-universe before Turn Coat.  The comments next to the story imply that it was also written in-universe and is thus before Turn Coat.

By that logic, we have a timeframe of May 9 ASF- Summer 10 ASF (Turn Coat).

Priscellie on AAAA Wizardry

From Jim, when he handed off the story to Fred and me to beta: "It's set between Small Favor and Turn Coat."

[Landing]

I would question the original date given since we don't know if that is the actual date of his birth in the dresdenverse. he could have been born a thousand years before but just told that as his birth date to the mortals.