the Dresden Files in a Government Town

[finarvyn]

This is an excellent thread! 

On one hand you've got Dresden ... no one knows about this stuff.

On the other hand you've got Fringe or X-Files ... the government knows and is covering it up.

Throw in a pinch of Delta Green and you've got a supercampaign!

Brilliant!

[Sh33p]

This is an excellent thread! 

On one hand you've got Dresden ... no one knows about this stuff.

On the other hand you've got Fringe or X-Files ... the government knows and is covering it up.

Throw in a pinch of Delta Green and you've got a supercampaign!

Brilliant!

I am now picturing the inevitable wise-crack deathmatch between Harry and Mulder/Scully.

"It can't be real!"
"It is. See? Look at the trash can. Look at it. Loooook at iiiit...BAM!" [trash can vaporized.]
"...I would love to see you try rationalizing that, Scully. This is proof of-of everything!" [Twenty minute ramble about alien abductions and JFK.]
"...uh..."
"Imps did JFK. Sorry. Some guy with the Venators cover it up after the fact." [Cut to Cancer Man laughing madly with a flame thrower in the dark.]
"WHAT?"
"And anal probing? Fairy prank." [Cue Toot.] "Turns out there was this guy back in Utah who-"
"BUT WHAT ABOUT MY SISTER?!"
"...well...there're these things called Hobs..."

Five minutes later, they're all drinking at Mac's and Mulder is converting to new age pantheism while Scully has a nervous breakdown at her beer.

The End

...or is it?

[Ihadris]

Well, I'm not entirely sure what you are saying here

Apologies if I got the wrong end of the stick!

If it were Harry would get real support rather than just tolerance, and you really can't have a hard boiled detective story where the hero gets real help when he asks for it - they just don't work like that.

Ah yeah I see where your coming from now, I hadn't thought of it in that way before.

Im loving the idea of the Fae signing on with the magna carta and having their own house of lords! You had any thought about adapting any other bits of English history?

[Douglas]

I've been away for a few months to avoid spoilers for Changes, Hello all.

Ancalagon, Greetings to a fellow resident of Ottawa.

My personal perspective on government interaction with the supernatural is that the boot is likely to be on the other foot, supernatural beings may have need to manipulate public servants and others to ensure their secrecy and continued existence.  The vampires or the fae are likely to be better at this than wizards, for the simple reason that they have no restrictions on their ability to influence and control mortals with their powers, beyond the restriction on using police or public exposure against another accorded faction.  Consider the disappearance of Susan's Loup Garou tape, or Madeline's use of mind-control to move mortal agents in Turn Coat.  The later case was private sector, and the former may have been as well, but the only limitation preventing interference with the government is the reference to using mortals being equivalent to going "nuclear" and I think there may be limitations on when that applies.

Consider the Special Investigations Unit from the books; they are to an extent aware and Harry's assistance has helped them battle a number of supernatural threats, some independent and some tied to the larger groups.  Given that harry was able to use the help of the cops to bring down Kravos back in Grave peril it seems that the Nuclear option is permissable against anyone not covered by the Unseelie Accords.  He did not bring in SI, other than Murphy, when he was facing Mavra scourge or the Lord Raith in Blood Rites; and I think that using her presence to muscle other supernaturals is going to come back to bite him.  But in general, the limitation on making use or influencing the police only seems to come up when they are used against another signatory of the accords.  Taking steps to ensure the continued secrecy magic and vampires is probably just regarded as good business, and if they happen to use a thrall to send the cops after some troublemakers (non-wizard PCs) then it's not an accord violation, given Harry's precedent.

Police and related services (in Ottawa the RCMP leap to mind) are likely going to be a primary focus of both control and resistance.  Attempting to shush any stories about bodies drained of blood popping up in the Canal or the Ottawa river, or a rash of suicides or people who died from their endorphin or adrenaline systems overloaded with pleasure or fear, is much easier for vamps if they have a thrall or a mortal agent on the inside.  Health services are also another possibility; both for discovering the truth in the data and dealing with a controlled colleague ordered into hushing up incriminating data by inhuman masters.  Any characters functioning in such a setting have got to keep wondering about who they can trust; who have the enemy got to.  You could be in Public Health or Transportation and still feel like you're in a spy novel.

If you want to have a specialized agency that deals with the supernatural you have to think of a few things:

1) How far up does the knowledge go?  Has the Minister been briefed?  Has the Prime Minister been briefed?

2) Has the organization been compromised?

3) If not, how have they avoided it?

[Sh33p]

1) How far up does the knowledge go?  Has the Minister been briefed?  Has the Prime Minister been briefed?

Probably like "How far down does the knowledge go?" The White Council was directly involved in nuclear non-proliferation between the US and Russia, so it's probably not unreasonable to assume that at least a few mortal heads of state and heads of government know about them. We also know that the US has a special department of congress dedicated to collecting magic-related things. Word of Jim on both counts, but still. Chances are, and especially with the history of mutual defense policies the US and Canada have, Canada would be in roughly the same boat.

[Knave]

Im loving the idea of the Fae signing on with the magna carta and having their own house of lords! You had any thought about adapting any other bits of English history?

Hiya - well yes and no.  There is a trap of putting every historical event down to supernatural causes and I'm trying to avoid it, so for now I'm just thinking in broad stroke 'game seeds' and adding more stuff as and when.

-In my mind I've got the various orders and chapters of masons re-enacting ancient traditions, but the traditions were taught by ancient wizards and are integral to massive spells that can be tapped by practioners with the right knowledge.  - It's a seed that can be used in a few ways:
1) Someone is knocking off anyone involved in a particular branch of masonry... players have to figure that out, then figure out why, and then what the tradition is for, and who might be able to use it / be harmed by it.
2) Someone is using massive power by tapping one of these things... Disciples of Kemmler or similar?
3) One of these things have been lost and needs to be re-established to combat badass de jour.

-Saint George and the Dragon => Knight of the Cross...  seems pretty likely to me... ; )  It may be a myth, but I figure if humans can leave ghosts then so can dragons...    A PC with a dead dragon in his belly seems like a pretty unusual character concept...

-If there is also a Faerie parliament, who was Guy Fawkes really after? 

--etc etc.  endless plot ideas, and the risk of cheese...

[Ancalagon]

One of the thing that would make it harder in Ottawa I find is that the murder rate here is so low.  We have about 12 murders per year - so that's 1.2 murder per 100 000 inhabitant.  Washington has 30 per 100 000 inhabitant, and Chicago has about half that.

This makes the whole notion of predators hiding in the night a bit odder, as well, each murder is quite the big thing here.  But that may be an opportunity as well - why is the murder rate so low?  Is there a Dresden explanation?

I'm working on one ... but I hesitate to use it because it's erm, un-PC and political.

[SoulCatcher78]

Check the statistics for missing persons and you find your pool of candidates.

[Deadmanwalking]

Yeah, missing persons is the standard Dresden Universe explananation, I think it's gone into explicitly in Dead Beat (reference is made to the number of missing persons who are never found being the same proportion of the population that herd animals lose from predators).

Monster kills actually don't tend to wind up listed as murders, for a variety of reasons, from the fact that the bodies are usually either clearly killed by a wild animal, or completely gone in one way or another (either eaten or disposed of somehow) to, in the case of more subtle predators such as the White Court, the fact that they show up as heart failure or something relatively innocuous like that.

[Douglas]

If you dan't want to post your ideas but still want feedback, feel free to PM me.  I'll just post my stuff here for the moment.

what Deadmanwalking and SoulCatcher78 said about missing persons, plus suicides.  Children abducted by trolls or the victims of house Raith are unlikely to show up in murder statistics.  I've been able to get a look at a crime map of Ottawa's missing persons cases and there are plenty, about 300 in the last 30 days.  Even given that most of those people will be found and the causes will be quite mundane in the real world, in the Dresdenverse some of those people may have been taken into the nevernever, or their bodies were disposed of and never found.  I haven't been able to track down suicide figures yet; and all I have to go on are the stories from some guys I knew on a rowing team and the number of times they saw bodies first thing in the morning on the canal or Dow's lake, but that may be a biased sample.

The low rate of violent death in Ottawa makes it unlikely we have any numbers of Black court vampires or ghouls around, but that leaves a lot of options.  There is a fair amount of variation in the styles of various Red court vampires; Bianca left a trail of bodies, while Ortega was very controlled in the matter of feeding.  He kept deaths to a minimum and kept a captive community for his vassals to feed on.  If the city does have Reds they probably act in a similar way, confining their feeding to poorer areas of the city (Vanier? Hintonburg?) and using cash and threats to buy the silence of their blood supply.  Or if you prefer a darker route, and don't mind borrowing from White Wolf, they may have simply grabbed people no one would miss and keep them caged like battery hens someplace secret; maybe someplace outside of town off a side-road.  The Raith don't have to go to those lengths, their feeding is usually non-lethal and when they do kill it probably doesn't look like murder.

One thing I can say is that if this city had a supernatural presence, they would not be sloppy.  Ortega or Lara could survive here, Mavra or Bianca would likely cause too much disruption and draw too much notice.  Subtler actors and manipulators would find it easier to move about here, provided they were careful enough in cleaning up after themselves.

As far as a element of conflict goes, Ottawa weather suggests we may be a battleground for the Winter and Summer courts.  I doubt either of them is responsible for hushing up the fallout of those battles, besides weird and unseasonal heat waves and cold snaps, but that still leaves plenty of options for string-pullers.  A government organization could be a potential candidate there, but given powers of the vampires and the sidhe I find it unlikely that such a group could remain [1] hidden, and [2] uncorrupted.  

[Knave]

Precisely - low 'food' (shall we call it) figures create as many questions as high ones.  Perhaps the local red vamp lord is filled with genuine remorse... and keeps his court on a tight leash?  Or perhaps he is just taking a longer view like Johnny Marcone.  The first option makes him a potential ally and/or victim to be saved; the second makes for a very scary nemesis that can still be counted on to work along with the characters if it's in his own interests.

Then again, perhaps there is a dragon in town who is known to not appreciate folks who make waves... 

[Ancalagon]

Ok, here's my ... risque idea. 

An interesting aspect of the Dresden file is that it uses "evil supernatural forces" to explain a fair amount of crime, disasters and general misery.  It seems to answer some kind of need we have to blame an external agent for the darker aspect of our nature... but I digress.

So - what's an evil in Canada?  Our shabby, shabby treatment of the Aboriginals.  If you take a moment, take an observer position, it's appalling.  So... why, in the Dresden Universe, is this going on?

Well, we know that a lot of supernatural creatures in North America seem to be of European origin.  I propose the following:  When America (the continent) was discovered, not only humans saw the potential for expansion.   Aboriginal spiritual beliefs and mystical traditions can be very strong - look at Injun Joe - and they posed a huge obstacle to various would-be predators.  They had to be eliminated.   Meanwhile, in those times, mundane humans were more willing to believe in the supernatural, and some of the colony leaders were becoming increasingly alarmed both by the Aboriginals mystical powers and the dark things that lurked at night.

So... a Deal with the devil was struck.  In exchange for a promise to leave the european colonizers alone, a Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs was given the responsibility of "managing" the Aboriginals, in other words slowly crush their culture.  As a result, the Aboriginals slowly lost their ways and are frequently preyed upon by various supernatural predators, while other Canadians are rarely the victims of such attacks.  But the Minister of Indian Affairs has little resources to police the Deal, and it may just be a matter of time before the other parties renege on it.

I think it's a good idea, but it might be... too brutal.

[Knave]

I think if you can utterly disgust your players with the monstrousness that vanilla humans can exhibit then you're onto a bit of a win     The 'monsters' at least have an excuse!

[Ancalagon]

I think if you can utterly disgust your players with the monstrousness that vanilla humans can exhibit then you're onto a bit of a win     The 'monsters' at least have an excuse!

I'm not making any thing up here.  For example, it recently came out that Inuits have tuberculosis rates over 100 times higher than the general population.  It then came out that the government has known about tuberculosis problems in Aboriginals since *1907*, but in over a century has done nothing to address the problem.   All I'm doing is adding a "Dresden reason" to the facts. 

I'm just wondering if this kind of reasoning is too political for a game...   (I should also add that neither I nor any or my players are Aboriginals)

[Knave]

I guess it depends on how adult your players are in their views.  It's not like you can offend the setting. 

If you're asking if Aboriginals would be offended, I'm sure I couldn't comment.