Bad Reviews

[Jack_of_Names]

Hello, everyone!

Okay, what this thread is for, is to ask how everyone handles bad reviews, from informal readers all the way up the scale to... "official" reviewrs. I ask because recently, I got my first bad review, off my mother of all people, and it shook my worse than any criticism I ever got from anyone else. There was no constructiveness about it, it was just flat out, "I don't think it's very good."

So, everyone, if you let people read you're stuff, how do you handle bad reviews? I know you're supposed to be tough skinned, but people have to feel somthing! It's human nature. So, do you shrug it aside? Do you take it in? Do you change?

"Can't please 'em all" is a popular saying, but it dosn't stop us from trying. Anyway, original question, how do YOU handle bad reviews?

[iago]

It's important with any *public* review -- setting aside the "mom" case -- that you respond to the reviewer thanking them for taking the time to review it.  Do not sink to the level of negativity.  By being a "class act", keeping your cool, and actually thanking a reviewer for a negative review, you've got a shot at turning that bad review into an opportunity for gaining respect in the eyes of folks who read your response to the reviewer.  Plus, there's a very real chance (this happened with a game I helped write) that the reviewer has a bunch of readers who read to find what he *doesn't* like, because they tend to like what he hates.  I've seen several "bad" reviews turn into a force for making sales this year.

... that said, if it's a personal review, like the "mom" case ... Man, that's just plain tough.  The lack of constructiveness is the only thing you should be responding to -- getting defensive will keep *you* from being constructive, too.  So challenge them: take them step by step through the process of analysis, and milk those constructive comments out of them.  They're there; it just takes some digging.  And honestly, as the creator, the onus to do the digging is really on you.  Folks who offer constructive criticism without prompting are doing volunteer work.

[Jack_of_Names]

There are times that I think myself wise, and in some ways, despite my relativley young years, I suppose I could be considered so. But you, Iago, and what you just said, is (and are) as wise as a tibetan wise man known to be un-commonly wise amongst wise men. Thanks

[Paige]

My first thought was, ohmygod, that's cold!! I mean, mom is the one who's supposed to love everything you do and really believe it in her own twisted world view where you're a god /or goddess/ among mere humans.

And then I read your second post and realized you are likely young enough your mother might be thinking she's doing you a favor...saving you from years of disappointment and possibly ultimate failure...better to be a doctor, or a lawyer!   

Whichever the case negative feed back is rough. Really rough. Writing is a very personal thing, while reading is comparatively impersonal, and very, very subjective. Other than time, a negligible amount of money and expectations, the reader invests little if nothing in comparison to what you’ve invested in a piece of work. It’s difficult, if not impossible for a reader, especially a non-writing reader, to understand the emotional connection a writer has to his or her work.
Unfortunately, no amount of explaining or comparing will make a difference. And Mama always knows best so I’d imagine it’d be even harder with her.

I agree with Iago, to be polite, be above the kneejerk hurt and urge to get even. It won’t do you or anyone else any good. The quickest way to bad reviews is to piss off the reviewer. Do it and you can bet they’ll trash everything else you ever write. Just not worth it.

Professionally speaking, getting a bad review on a published work... There’s very little you can do. Whine to an understanding friend, eat some chocolate (works really well for us women), hit something that won’t be hurt, hurt you, or hit back (works great for guys...and girls), cry if you need to...then put it behind you. NO. You can’t please everyone. Everyone has different tastes, different likes and dislikes. Example: There are people who actually think a Rocky SIX is a good idea (shudder) and stranger still, there are people who don’t love LOVE the Dresden files. (Gasp!) You’ll get bad reviews as sure as it will rain in spring. If one person says they didn’t enjoy your work, you can bet there’s someone out there who loved it. The negative voices just seem louder.

Pre-published critiques/ opinions...again, I agree with Iago. A simple, “I didn’t like it,” does you no good. Maybe they didn’t like the premise or the genre or any stories that use the word “said” who knows? (People are weird.) Ask them why they didn’t like it. If their comments make sense, try and learn from it. If they’re just trying to pull you down, or are one of those people who’s elevator doesn’t go all the way to the top...say thanks and then put it behind you. Keep writing. Keep getting better. Eat chocolate, hit something soft and inanimate then keep writing.

Your mom...speaking strictly personally, It’d be a long, long, long time before I showed her anything else. I’d assume she was just trying to point me in a different less emotionally painful, direction, toward a career where the odds of success aren’t stacked heaven high against me. You know better than anyone if it was tough love or callus indifference. And you know better than anyone how to deal with it.
Best of luck to you!!

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

Okay, what this thread is for, is to ask how everyone handles bad reviews, from informal readers all the way up the scale to... "official" reviewrs. I ask because recently, I got my first bad review, off my mother of all people, and it shook my worse than any criticism I ever got from anyone else. There was no constructiveness about it, it was just flat out, "I don't think it's very good."

It depends on the sort of bad review. "I don't think it's very good" tells you pretty much nothing about what the reviewer thinks is wrong with it.

A nice informative review that says "this person doing X in chapter 15 doesn't make sense given how she reacts to Y in chapter 7", I'll think about, and either change or put in the information to make it make sense; when I've been living closely with characters for as long as it takes to write anything of note, I can easily forget what about them is so bloody obvious that I never get round to putting it in the text.

A review that says "I hate the scene with the pineapples" but that turns out on querying to be because the reviewer had a traumatic experience with a pineapple as a child rather than anything about the scene itself, counts as "oh, OK, not going to get an objective opinion here".  So does anything that's critiquing the book for not being what I don't actually want it to be in the first place.  [ Ye gods, Amazon is full of people doing the equivalent of criticising Psycho for all the ways in which it fails to be Watership Down.]

Find readers who are likely to understand what you're doing and be sympathetic to it.  Don't expect someone who never reads SF to get the details of an SF novel you write in a specific tradition within SF.  Know what you're likely to be compared to, whether you want it or not - for example, if you're working on a colonising-Mars novel, it's worth having at some point read Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars and sequels, being the big award-winning and highly regarded colonising-Mars novels of recentish times, because any reviewer who knows the field will have those books in their mind.

IMO, the most useful first-readers are writers about as good as you are or a little better. Writers who are a lot better are liable to either give you advice that goes over your head, or have to put so much work into making it clear what they think would be helpful that it's hard to get them to stick to it; writers who aren't as good as you are liable to give unhelpful  advice even though well-meaning.  [ There's definitely a place for first-readers who go "Wow, this is wonderful, keep going" without any more details than that; that place is in motivating you to keep writing, and not to be mistaken for critical feedback. ]

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

Whichever the case negative feed back is rough. Really rough.

It can be, but it seems to me that honest negative feedback is pretty much universally more useful than a review that is nice for the sake of being nice and does not point you at ways the writing could actually be improved.

It’s difficult, if not impossible for a reader, especially a non-writing reader, to understand the emotional connection a writer has to his or her work.

The thought of first-readers who are not themselves writers gives me hives, tbh.

[Jack_of_Names]

Paige; I'm 21, younger than many, older than some. It's a pain of an age when you're not a kid but you're not "really" an adult lol. And my mum knws better than to try turn my course lol. Bullheadidness runs in the family. Both sides.

There is some excellant advice coming out here

I just hope my official proof readers come back to me with more constructive reviews, of the kind that you all have detailed!

EDIT: Anyway, have any of you fine people ever had a review, personal or proffesional, that's just made you go "Ouch..."?

[trboturtle]

It's a fact of human nature that not everyone is going to like your writing. People's tastes are different. Take for example, Jordan's Wheel of Time series. Some people love those long involved books, others can't stand them. I read several and decided that I really didn't like them. That doesn't mean Jorden's writing is junk, it just means his writing don't entice me like Jim Butcher's does. It's just a matter of taste.

Best thing is to get more then one opinion about a piece. If different people are citing  the same thing they don't like, you might want to reconsider rewriting that section. If most of your prereaders like a section, but a couple of others don't, find out what they don't like about it, and see if it need to be tweaked.

In the end, you are the final arbitrator of your writing. You are the one who has to be 100% sastified with the result.

Craig

[James]

I agree with Iago never react badly to criticism or bad reviews. At the end of the day they went out the way to take time to read or watch your piece of work. Also remember you will not get everyone to like your work, some people will like it, some will hate and others will be indifferent towards it.

And then I read your second post and realized you are likely young enough your mother might be thinking she's doing you a favor...saving you from years of disappointment and possibly ultimate failure...better to be a doctor, or a lawyer!   

Paige; I'm 21, younger than many, older than some. It's a pain of an age when you're not a kid but you're not "really" an adult lol.

From your reply to Paige I presume you are from America and this is what really shocked me when I visited several years ago and to my amazement I was treated as a child at the age of 19. Being from Wales and being treated as an adulted for the best part of 2 years it was a real shock. I knew the drinking age was 21 but didn't realise that you are not an adult until then.

[Jack_of_Names]

lol No, I'm from England (Dont' hate me, I'm a quater Welsh lol). What I meant about not being a kid, but not being an adult is that kids think of you as old, and people who're older think of you as a kid. Like, when you're seven, you know everyone is going to think og you as "young" and when you're 27 people will thinkof you as an adult. You're pretty much thought of as a kidall through your teens, but when you hit 21, you're not quite either. It's a transition age. It's a weird age. I wish I was seven. Things were SWEET when I was seven lol.

[James]

lol No, I'm from England (Dont' hate me, I'm a quater Welsh lol). What I meant about not being a kid, but not being an adult is that kids think of you as old, and people who're older think of you as a kid. Like, when you're seven, you know everyone is going to think og you as "young" and when you're 27 people will thinkof you as an adult. You're pretty much thought of as a kidall through your teens, but when you hit 21, you're not quite either. It's a transition age. It's a weird age. I wish I was seven. Things were SWEET when I was seven lol.

Unless you play for thier rugby team then all is okay .

What freaks me and most of my friends of the same age 22-23 is that some of our parents were married and had us or our older siblings at that age. I do understand what you mean early 20's is wierd you are no longer a teen so can't get away with much crap and not quite ready to settle down (well most aren't) but you have to start taking more adultish responsibilities.

I also find it wierd that a couple of my friends are now teachers and some are training to be teachers, my best mate is Mr King which I know he is going to have great fun with lol.

[Jack_of_Names]

You hate 'em when you have 'em, and then you are one. It's one of the great mysteries of life!!! Teachers; The (wo)men, the myths, the legends.

[Dom]

Re: bad reviews - I agree with iago .

There was a big name author a few years ago who made a big stink on amazon about the bad reviews their book was getting.  It hit livejournal and the sci-fi/fantasy writers' communities instantly, and everyone made fun of them.  Or made them a Lesson of What Not To Do.  And it stuck in MY mind that that author was very immature to respond to a review in that way in public.  I definately learned a lesson.

Also, from my time as a pro e-bayer...if you ever do ebay, don't only look at a seller's positive reviews to get an idea of how they are...look at how they respond to the negatives they get, and how they respond to the sellers they buy from.  Sometimes a guy will have pretty good feedback overall, but the one negative they had they flew off the handle on in the response back to their customer.  As a buyer I take note of that, because it tells me something about what might happen if something just happens to go wrong with *my* order.  I think author reviews are the same thing...you can tell a lot about an author by the way they respond to negativity.

Always always keep your head about reviews.  In most cases, they don't know what the heck they're talking about (ie, the YOU SUCK! oh-so-helpful comments...Battlestar Galactica fandom, for example, abounds with lots of fans who don't know what they're talking about from a writing-perspective), and in some cases they do know what they're talking about and are worth listening too, if only to see why they think the way they do, even if you don't agree.