Author Topic: Request for Feedback  (Read 6841 times)

Offline Torvaldr

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Re: Request for Feedback
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2009, 06:44:22 AM »
#1 error is the names of the fallen angels. Lucifer is litarally translated as liar and does not turn up in historical documents in the church until after Paul. ie you want Satan or Sin. Simple info, hard to get. You wouldnt want to be called by some one elses name either right? Also Not sure when Damien/on appeared but it is loosly translated as childlike behavior. (try hebrew/anchient)  

Will of the word. The word of god is Jesus, are you sure this is the right concept you wish to depict? Only until the Messiah, ie Jesus, were angels unwashed into heaven. (? not sure if i am stating this correctly.) All others that become angels through thoughts and deeds this is the imperitive parts that the religiose forget to point out. They think you get it from the start.
Right on the money on this one! good job!
//

Alright i read it good job i must say, and believe it or not you have to actually go to the Vatican to get the complete list of angels. They do have a book they do not allow it out. I am not sure if i got lucky when i was allowed to see it or not :P Good start though.

In the modern Christian dogma of many sects, Lucifer and Satan are the same being. Lucifer was an Archangel in charge of heavens choirs. He was renamed Satan after he was cast out. So I am going from that angle.

As far as the angel names go. I am not making any effort to research accurate historical, or religious names. There are a few I am using that are commonly known, especially the Arch Angels, but as far as the rest go, including the main character, they are entirely fictitious and made up from my own imagination. I am using the iel, which in essence mean "of God" as in Light Of God, or Strength of God, or Glory of God, and so on and so on. When you do research the names of angels they mostly use that suffix. Jim has said something similar in his use of angel names for the Denarians.

With the Will and the Word, again, many modern Christian sects believe in the Holy Trinity, Father, Son, Holy Ghost. They are all one and the same and have existed since time began. The Son, Jesus, was the one who was born into the world. But in the dogma mentioned above, he still existed in the beginning. So in the dogma of the universe I am creating in my book, the Will is the Father, the Word, is the Son, and the Action is the Holy Spirit. The Will decides it will be done, the Word states it will be done, and the Action does it.

It is an uncommon modern concept that humans become angels after death. In my particular faith, humans do NOT become angels. And I supposed I could even be accused of heresy for suggesting that angels could be born into the world AS humans. Angels can take human form, but again that is different than being born human. Angels were created by God to be the instruments of his will. To work in creation according to his plan. They were created beings with full knowledge of God, filled with his power. And as such didn't need the type of faith humans do. The KNOW God exists, and KNOW his will directly. So their sin of rebellion is even more serious, as they chose to rebel in full knowledge of the sin of their actions.

Part of my inspiration is the Prophecy movies with Christopher Walker. There is a line in there that still inspires/haunts me. "Did you ever notice in the Bible that whenever God needed to punish someone, or make a point, or a killing, he sent an angel? Did you ever wonder what a being like that must be like? Your whole existence spent in praise of your creator, but with one wing dipped in blood. Would you ever, truly, want to meet and angel?"

I am not trying to start a theological argument, but working with a concept that I have had for a long time, and trying NOT to offend the Christian world anymore than I have to. Lord knows I am likely to get blasted anyway... :-)
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Offline Quantus

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Re: Request for Feedback
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2009, 01:02:11 PM »
#1 error is the names of the fallen angels. Lucifer is litarally translated as liar and does not turn up in historical documents in the church until after Paul. ie you want Satan or Sin. Simple info, hard to get. You wouldnt want to be called by some one elses name either right? Also Not sure when Damien/on appeared but it is loosly translated as childlike behavior. (try hebrew/anchient)  
The name "Lucifer" means:Light-bearer or Light-bringer.  Lux (=light) + ferous (=to bear or carry) (not to be confused with ferros, meaning iron). It only appears once in the Bible in Isaiah 14:12 ("How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning...")  Its a word/name that didnt come into being until 382 AD when pope Damascus contracted the scholar Jerome to create an official Latin bible to unify all the various ones floating around.  The original word used in the hebrew was "heylel" which can loosly translate to Boastful Fool, which makes sense in context since the next verse of Isaiah has satan/lucifer/heylel boasting that he will ascend heaven and place his throne above God's, etc.  Here is a pretty concise essay on the roots of the name, if you're interested.

Ok, academic rant complete.  As you were...  :)
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Offline Flashand

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Re: Request for Feedback
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2009, 12:42:38 AM »
The name "Lucifer" means:Light-bearer or Light-bringer.  Lux (=light) + ferous (=to bear or carry) (not to be confused with ferros, meaning iron). It only appears once in the Bible in Isaiah 14:12

Like you said Lux means light .... Luc means something else entirely.

Take american english for example, most words have multiple meanings and are often misused and or mispelled because of the comminality of the language and the changes over time. Take the word lucitania.. does this also mean light? i do not persieve that the people living in the area would argue about being a light but i cannot recall the exactly the translation.

Back to lucifer. luc= lie ci = of fer= three.
therfor my translation stands.

Now i do agree that Lux is light i am not argueing that BUT we are talking about he word Luc not the other.

Now bible quotes are usually done in the english language and after several thousand years context and meaning are corrupted. Therefor i always go back to the source ie the hebrew bible, alas this as well has the inevitable error of time and is not the same.

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Offline Flashand

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Re: Request for Feedback
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2009, 12:48:28 AM »
Quote
I am not trying to start a theological argument, but working with a concept that I have had for a long time, and trying NOT to offend the Christian world anymore than I have to. Lord knows I am likely to get blasted anyway... :-)

That is a good working concept i like it and theology and i have gone rounds before, :P i was actually asked not to return to theo class as the teacher could not disprove most of my arguments as he refused to get a hebrew bible.

Likely to get blasted for creating a work of fiction?? not likely IMHO, fiction is for those that can think and adapt and look at all (posibiliies (this word sucks)) therfor they use a very important item and again IMHO, they are blessed for not baned for.
"There was a flash and boom there was nothing left."
"The funny thing is he went LD five minutes ago."

The adventures of gaining a nickname, a RL occurance.

Offline KarlTenBrew

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Re: Request for Feedback
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2009, 04:50:14 PM »
Like you said Lux means light .... Luc means something else entirely.

Take american english for example, most words have multiple meanings and are often misused and or mispelled because of the comminality of the language and the changes over time. Take the word lucitania.. does this also mean light? i do not persieve that the people living in the area would argue about being a light but i cannot recall the exactly the translation.

Back to lucifer. luc= lie ci = of fer= three.
therfor my translation stands.

Now i do agree that Lux is light i am not argueing that BUT we are talking about he word Luc not the other.

Now bible quotes are usually done in the english language and after several thousand years context and meaning are corrupted. Therefor i always go back to the source ie the hebrew bible, alas this as well has the inevitable error of time and is not the same.

Highlight mine.  You only need to look to immigration records to see how easy and often the spelling of a word changes...the meaning/roots don't change because someone changed the spelling.  Similarly, many Latin words with 'x' in them have over the over course of history been conjugated or combined with other words as 'c' because of the original pronunciation and the then-modern pronunciation of 'c' by the native speaker of whatever Romantic language or time-distinct English.  Meanings are only corrupted by intentional occurence or change of connotation.  That is, either someone actively changes it, or it is used as a euphimism or percieved to be used in a certain way which evolves into the new common usage, and hence new definition.  To my knowledge, the majority of religious sects [regardless of being a Christian denomination or not] understand the position of Lucifer pre-casting out as responsible for reflecting/carrying the grace/might/beauty/power of God, much as a torch or mirror bearer might if God were as simple a concept as flame.  This directly ties into the orginal roots of 'light bearer', regardless of spelling bastardization, and has stuck despite the potential for your interpretation based on the accepted spelling.



Academic Rant Powers, Deactivate!  Love the idea of the story, it sounds like an interesting read and has the potential for some great story telling.  Your samples so far are great  ;)
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