Author Topic: Attack on Artis Tor and the Winter wellspring in “Proven Guilty”  (Read 2142 times)

Offline SerScot

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So, when Harry introduced Summer Fire to the Winter Wellspring… did all of Winter, including those forces at the Outer Gates, really march on Artis Tor to defend Winter?  If so… who was guarding the Gates?  Wouldn’t that have been a perfect time for the Outsiders to attack?

Discuss.
"Maybe there will be a laundry emergency at the Carpenter house, and Harry shows up with detergent saying, 'I am Harry of the White Council. And I come back to you now at the turn of the TideTM.'" -  Vairelome 9/25/2011

Mab =/= Molly

Malcom =/= KotC

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Attack on Artis Tor and the Winter wellspring in “Proven Guilty”
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2023, 08:57:49 PM »
Mab keeps a reserve which was based at Arctis Minora, it’s this reserve which is balanced by Summer forces, otherwise Winter including its gate detachment vastly outnumber summer.

I suspect Mab deliberately moved her non-gate forces to flush out a suspected traitor. This appears to have been confirmed in the Novella The Law when Nameless Demi-god of Discord (not to be confused with Elon Demi-god of Twitter) and vassal of Mab since he claimed sanctuary from Kemmlers defeat (he was an associate, nit apprentice), was banished from Winter Lands following the attack by the Black Council to free nem-Lea which occurred just before Harry’s own assault on Arctis Tor to free Molly. Remember the winking ice statue? Mab never truly left.

This is why I suspect Nameless of being Cowl, Winter Law might prevent him from attacking Arctis Tor, but he is a lawyer, his vows likely were worded to allow him to pass on Winter secrets and maybe leave the back door open, but nothing more. No open evidence he colluded with the attackers which is why he still breathing, but enough circumstantial evidence for Mab to ban him. Very Cowl who is known to take major steps to hide his involvement and identity, and of course cowl has let slip to Harry he knew all about Bob containing the Word. Every other known associate or apprentice of Kemmler is now dead, the last being Corpsetaker in Ghost Story. Ergo Nameless is Cowl.

Offline g33k

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Re: Attack on Artis Tor and the Winter wellspring in “Proven Guilty”
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2023, 09:51:32 AM »
... Every other known associate or apprentice of Kemmler is now dead, the last being Corpsetaker in Ghost Story ...
But Necromancers are notoriously hard to push all the way across that "neither fish nor fowl" zone between being alive and being (all the way) dead...  Jim's got plenty of wiggle-room there, if he wants to use it.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Attack on Artis Tor and the Winter wellspring in “Proven Guilty”
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2023, 01:43:19 PM »
Presumed deadish.

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Attack on Artis Tor and the Winter wellspring in “Proven Guilty”
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2023, 02:36:31 PM »
So, when Harry introduced Summer Fire to the Winter Wellspring… did all of Winter, including those forces at the Outer Gates, really march on Artis Tor to defend Winter?  If so… who was guarding the Gates?  Wouldn’t that have been a perfect time for the Outsiders to attack?

Discuss.
That would be kinda dumb, wouldn't it?  I would interpret it as all the forces in Winter, and wherever the Gates are lies outside Winter.

How would a demi god become apprenticed to a mortal?

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Attack on Artis Tor and the Winter wellspring in “Proven Guilty”
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2023, 05:55:18 PM »
He didn’t, I presume it was more of a partnership between Kemmler and Nameless, with Nameless making the apprentices like Grevane and Corpsetaker do the menial jobs just to sow discord amongst them. Cowl is very scornful of the heirs.

Remember Kemmler had a valid premise to achieve full godhood, so Nameless would have considered him a partner.

Re-reading Nameless stating working for Marcone in 8 ASF, (according to The Law) a year after White Night when Marcone became Baron Marcone, and the last appearance of Cowl, and around the time Marcone was abducted by the Denarians in Small Favour, and yet we never see Nameless until The Law. Deliberately keeping off Harry’s radar? Did he help set up Marcone for the Denarians? It was during Small Favour that Nicky let on he was worried about a traitor in his ranks, the traitor and Nameless working together? The turning of the Archive is a big win for the Black Council/Circle and Marcone really was just the bait. It’s exactly what Nameless was suspected of with the Winter Court and led to his expulsion.

Offline g33k

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Re: Attack on Artis Tor and the Winter wellspring in “Proven Guilty”
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2023, 10:16:13 PM »
... It was during Small Favour that Nicky let on he was worried about a traitor in his ranks, the traitor and Nameless working together? ...

How about this notion:  the Demigod of Discord creating the appearance of a traitor (hellfire at Arctis Tor would do it) specifically to cause Discord amongst the Denarians...

It's not like he's explicitly on the Bad Guys' side -- he's on the side of Discord.  The Bad Guys are merely ready tools, when he's looking around for avenues to create more discord.

Offline Ed0517

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Re: Attack on Artis Tor and the Winter wellspring in “Proven Guilty”
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2023, 09:51:05 AM »
Every other known associate or apprentice of Kemmler is now dead, the last being Corpsetaker in Ghost Story.

Emphasis mine.

KNOWN

Didn't we have a WOJ we had met Cowl before, well before Nameless?

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Attack on Artis Tor and the Winter wellspring in “Proven Guilty”
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2023, 01:39:06 PM »
Yes, and I suspect he was the male half of  one of the dancing couples  in Maeves Court in Summers knight, this would before he was kicked out of Arctis Tor and Maeve makes a cryptic comment about “he” telling her about Harry (Harry and Maeve had not previously met and the only members of Winter we had seen whom Harry had interacted with at that point were Mab and Lea). It would be entirely appropriate for Nameless to be there at that time especially as there has been the murder by the previous Winter Knight of the Summer Knight. I wonder who put Lloyd Slate up to that I wonder ? sowing discord between the two Faerie Courts? If every single major case leads directly or indirectly back to Cowl where was Cowl in Summer Knight? why he would be at Maeves side next to Lloyd Slate. Was he part of the reason Redcap was placed in Maeves Court? He had been there 30 years, AFTER Nameless was paperclipped into Winter. Did he make Maeve worse, forcing Mab to rely more on Lea only for him to nemfect Lea?

That dancer is of course not named.

Jim has been trolling us on Cowl from the start, why stop now?