Black Court Missing Elders (Newbie first post)

[g33k]

Here's another question.. It's said many times that the BC has beeen around since the dawn of human memory...

Source, please?

AFAIK, you are mistaken.  Blampires were created within recorded history (during the Dark Ages).  Specifically -- AIUI -- Drakul was trapped in a Starborn body last cycle, so about 666 years ago; so his son (who created the BC) is younger than that.

... So which Court is the oldest? The Red Court have been around since pre history as was astableshed in Changes with the revealing of Duchess Arianna age and the Red Kings. The whites speak aform of Roman right? 

I don't think we know, for sure.

Whampires speak Etruscan, which was an early rival of Rome's.  The languages are distantly related (with a common ancestor) rather than either being "a form of" the other one; Etruscan is thought to be the older, with some influence on Roman (and via Roman, maybe even into English!).

We don't know the Whamps originated there, however (afaik, there is no WOJ specifying this); it's possible the Etruscan-speaking Whamps were simply the winners in old Whampire rivalries, and that Whampires pre-date even the Etruscan culture.  But... call it 3000 years ago, if we take the earliest Whamps to have arisen with the Etruscans.

We have a bit more detail on the Reds.  I think it's safe to pin Rampire origins to Mesoamerica (or maybe Polynesia) where they managed (somehow) to capture some of the great Powers worshiped as gods by the early native Mesoamericans (I suspect (but do not know of an WoJ confirming) that this happened around the fall of the Mayas and the dominating rise of the Aztec).  Drinking that super-powered blood gave them a huge power-up, and they stepped into the role of the gods, and were worshiped as-such going forward.

Whamps and Blamps overlapped from the beginning of the Blamps.  There was probably no Ramp interaction until mortals discovered the "New World" & Cortez' conquest.

But before that...?  In theory, either the Reds or the Whites could be much, much older.

[Ed0517]

Not confusing, merely misreading.  As far as the Black Court goes, since unless killed they live forever why do they need any elders?  They have a couple of leaders at the moment, Drakul and Mavra.

I think the Elders are the leaders - but it's also possible there is some ranks in that BCVs are not born like Whites, but turned like Reds. In at least some other legends, the vamp who turns you is your Lord, and you report to him, at least somewhat. Maybe not as strictly hierarchical as the whites, but something

[g33k]

...  As far as the Black Court goes, since unless killed they live forever why do they need any elders? ...

I don't think "need" enters into it.  The "elder" designation is simply descriptive, of having lived long enough and gathered enough power to stand out even among other powerful blampires.

Mostly, I think, it describes the ones who survived the Stokerpocalypse.
 

[Mira]

I don't think "need" enters into it.  The "elder" designation is simply descriptive, of having lived long enough and gathered enough power to stand out even among other powerful blampires.

Mostly, I think, it describes the ones who survived the Stokerpocalypse.

Then none are missing, we have Mavra and we have Drakul...  Unless the Black Court is a lot bigger than we think, do they really need anymore than that? 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I don't think "need" enters into it.  The "elder" designation is simply descriptive, of having lived long enough and gathered enough power to stand out even among other powerful blampires.

Mostly, I think, it describes the ones who survived the Stokerpocalypse.

I think you mean the Bramaggedon.

[HeWhoSucksAtWalking]

Source, please? Harry says this in Blood Rites I believe

AFAIK, you are mistaken.  Blampires were created within recorded history (during the Dark Ages).  Specifically -- AIUI -- Drakul was trapped in a Starborn body last cycle, so about 666 years ago; so his son (who created the BC) is younger than that.

I don't think we know, for sure.

Whampires speak Etruscan, which was an early rival of Rome's.  The languages are distantly related (with a common ancestor) rather than either being "a form of" the other one; Etruscan is thought to be the older, with some influence on Roman (and via Roman, maybe even into English!).

We don't know the Whamps originated there, however (afaik, there is no WOJ specifying this); it's possible the Etruscan-speaking Whamps were simply the winners in old Whampire rivalries, and that Whampires pre-date even the Etruscan culture.  But... call it 3000 years ago, if we take the earliest Whamps to have arisen with the Etruscans.

We have a bit more detail on the Reds.  I think it's safe to pin Rampire origins to Mesoamerica (or maybe Polynesia) where they managed (somehow) to capture some of the great Powers worshiped as gods by the early native Mesoamericans (I suspect (but do not know of an WoJ confirming) that this happened around the fall of the Mayas and the dominating rise of the Aztec).  Drinking that super-powered blood gave them a huge power-up, and they stepped into the role of the gods, and were worshiped as-such going forward.

Whamps and Blamps overlapped from the beginning of the Blamps.  There was probably no Ramp interaction until mortals discovered the "New World" & Cortez' conquest.

But before that...?  In theory, either the Reds or the Whites could be much, much older.