Author Topic: Naming things can be dangerous....  (Read 1899 times)

Offline groinkick

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Naming things can be dangerous....
« on: February 17, 2021, 04:32:42 PM »
WoJ:

No giving things names is something anybody can do.  It sticks a little harder coming from Harry because he has so much more power relative to the rest of the world.  Naming things is a way of having power over them.  That’s in almost every magical tradition.  That’s something that other people can do as well, but a lot of them don’t.  The problem is when you Name something you create a link to it.  By doing that you’re leaving yourself open to it in some ways.  Dresden just runs around naming things willy nilly because he’s such a careful guy.

Uriel was warning Harry when he was talking about kids playing with grenades...  That Naming something leaves you open to it...  Perhaps Harry should you know, not have Named Alfred for example
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

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Offline Mira

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Re: Naming things can be dangerous....
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2021, 06:31:52 PM »
WoJ:

No giving things names is something anybody can do.  It sticks a little harder coming from Harry because he has so much more power relative to the rest of the world.  Naming things is a way of having power over them.  That’s in almost every magical tradition.  That’s something that other people can do as well, but a lot of them don’t.  The problem is when you Name something you create a link to it.  By doing that you’re leaving yourself open to it in some ways.  Dresden just runs around naming things willy nilly because he’s such a careful guy.

Uriel was warning Harry when he was talking about kids playing with grenades...  That Naming something leaves you open to it...  Perhaps Harry should you know, not have Named Alfred for example

  I don't Harry actually thinks when he does it.  Part of the reason he does it, it is easier for him to relate to whatever it is... Sometimes he does it to show out and out disrespect, and it gives him a degree of power over the whatever.   Actually I think it is good he named Alfred, who did he name him after?  Batman's faithful servant who kept his secrets, was of great help at times and was always loyal, qualities he needs in the guy that runs Demonreach prison most of the time.. If the creature gains the qualities of the original he is named after that is of great benefit to Harry.

Offline Yuillegan

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Re: Naming things can be dangerous....
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2021, 04:34:51 AM »
WoJ:

No giving things names is something anybody can do.  It sticks a little harder coming from Harry because he has so much more power relative to the rest of the world.  Naming things is a way of having power over them.  That’s in almost every magical tradition.  That’s something that other people can do as well, but a lot of them don’t.  The problem is when you Name something you create a link to it.  By doing that you’re leaving yourself open to it in some ways.  Dresden just runs around naming things willy nilly because he’s such a careful guy.

Uriel was warning Harry when he was talking about kids playing with grenades...  That Naming something leaves you open to it...  Perhaps Harry should you know, not have Named Alfred for example
I don't think it's a straight up good or bad thing. Like most things there are positives and negatives. Just like Harry revealing his name in Storm Front. I guess Harry feels the gains outweigh the risks with Naming. I mean, he could also be wrong or foolish too. But I wonder if this might also give beings he names influence over him. The Naming and changing of Lash comes to mind. In order to change him she had to change herself, and to do that she used Harry's soul. It ended up making her more like him and so she ended up sacrificing herself for him. It might come back to haunt Harry that he named Alfred. But it also gives him more power over Alfred in some ways too.
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Offline Mira

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Re: Naming things can be dangerous....
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2021, 03:39:18 PM »
Quote
I don't think it's a straight up good or bad thing. Like most things there are positives and negatives. Just like Harry revealing his name in Storm Front. I guess Harry feels the gains outweigh the risks with Naming. I mean, he could also be wrong or foolish too. But I wonder if this might also give beings he names influence over him. The Naming and changing of Lash comes to mind. In order to change him she had to change herself, and to do that she used Harry's soul. It ended up making her more like him and so she ended up sacrificing herself for him. It might come back to haunt Harry that he named Alfred. But it also gives him more power over Alfred in some ways too.

As I said, keep in mind who Alfred is in the Batman stories, a loyal helpful servant, so yeah, naming him does give Harry an advantage.  Where Harry runs into trouble with his naming of things is when he does it to be a smart ass, then it could come back to bite him.  But a lot of the time it doesn't, as in I don't think Bob would have changed if Harry hadn't given him a name, same with Lash.. Though love and affection has a lot to do with it in both cases, I think it is a lot more complicated than it appears.

Offline ZhonLord

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Re: Naming things can be dangerous....
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2021, 10:26:38 PM »
Indeed, don't forget the benefits that Harry has accrued through his reckless Naming.

It hasn't been outright connected in the books, but Toot-Toot gets bigger every time Harry gives him a new rank in the Za-Lord's Militia. Even Toot himself was complaining about his newfound height.

The nicknames he gives his enemies often agitate them, make them miss details or even get outright careless.  His opponents recognize the power and value of Names and thus these "degrading names" have an effect on them - might be a placebo, might be real, either way it works.  As evidence: "Nicky".

By naming the Archive Ivy, he gained a true friend and valuable ally.  Her connection to Harry may be hurt by his seeking to kill himself, but as Kinkaid himself pointed out, Ivy holds to that Name as one of her most deeply treasured possessions. That's no small value.

These are just three examples of the benefits Harry has gained from applying Names to everything and everyone around him.  There's a risk involved because of the connections that could be exploited, but he can use those connections just as well as his opposition.