Question about Bob & Ebenezer

[kbrizzle]

So in Dead Beat, Bob says that Harry picked him from up the smoldering ruins of Justin’s house just as Justin had picked him up the ruins of Kemmler’s place. This means that Harry was ~16 years old when Bob became his.

Then Harry goes to the Council for trial & is sent to live with Ebenezer for a couple of years before striking out on his own. Where was Bob during this time? Did teenage Harry never tell the old man about Bob when he was recounting his time with Justin?

The way I see it, there are 3 possible answers:

• Harry takes Bob at age 16 from Justin’s place & buries him somewhere safe before he turns himself into the Council. Harry is aware that he should hide Bob from everybody & never mentions the skull, After his apprenticeship with Ebenezer ends, Harry digs Bob back up so even Ebenezer never knew that Harry got Bob.
• Ebenezer is aware of Bob - which is pretty chilling. Perhaps he asked his friend Simon about it, which is how Cowl knows Harry has it.
• Bob was being poetic with Harry about the smoldering ruins bit - 19 yr old Harry goes back to Justin’s burnt down house after his apprenticeship with Ebenezer ends & digs up Bob from a secret hiding place Justin had left the skull in so the wardens couldn’t find it.

[Mira]

Then Harry goes to the Council for trial & is sent to live with Ebenezer for a couple of years before striking out on his own. Where was Bob during this time? Did teenage Harry never tell the old man about Bob when he was recounting his time with Justin?

  Most likely not..

[KurtinStGeorge]

My guess is that Bob told Harry to hide him.  Bob would known what the Council would do to him if they found him.  He would have known that Justin's death would not go unnoticed by the Council.  His first priority would have been survival, so I guess that the first time they met, Bob would have told Harry that he needed to find a place to hide him, after first telling Harry how useful he could be.     

[Snark Knight]

My guess is that Bob told Harry to hide him.  Bob would known what the Council would do to him if they found him.  He would have known that Justin's death would not go unnoticed by the Council.  His first priority would have been survival, so I guess that the first time they met, Bob would have told Harry that he needed to find a place to hide him, after first telling Harry how useful he could be.   

I believe there's a WOJ that Bob told Harry to hide / bury the skull, and he came back for it after leaving Eb.

Bob took an awful risk that they'd behead Harry anyway and he'd be left buried.

[Yuillegan]

I always have thought that particular WOJ was misdirection. I think Jim is purposely not telling us the real story of what happened with Bob because it would give away too many reveals.

I think Bob was never lost. I also think that Harry has it backwards, Bob got Harry just like Mouse won Harry. He thinks he rescued/claimed Bob. But I think Bob was meant to keep an eye on him. I am not certain Ebenezar knows Bob other than what he has heard...although I think it is interesting that the Wardens are/were aware of Bob when he worked for Kemmler. It isn't like Kemmler would have been advertising that spirit. But just as Justin was likely corrupted (perhaps further) by the Bob he took from Kemmler's lab, I think Bob was meant to be the same thing for Harry. But it backfired a bit because Harry is so willful and changed much of what Bob is. I think Bob has been keeping certain things from Harry because he has been ordered to and despite changing owners he can't break his word.

But I could be wrong, as that is all speculation. A pretty easy theory is that Bob was buried and the Warden's "somehow" missed him. Maybe Harry buried him in the Nevernever like he did in Changes (I think. The place with the centipedes).

[SerScot]

I believe there's a WOJ that Bob told Harry to hide / bury the skull, and he came back for it after leaving Eb.

Bob took an awful risk that they'd behead Harry anyway and he'd be left buried.

Not if Bob’s own survival is a built in priority.  The Council would have destroyed Bob after searching the ruins of Dumourn’s home.  Heck, finding out that Dumourn had stolen and concealed Bob would have lent more credibility to Harry’s claim that Justin was a Warlock.  So, Bob hurt Harry by convincing Harry to hide him. 

Does anyone else wonder if Dumourn was dead long before he adopted Harry? And that perhaps Dumourn isn’t who Harry thought he was?

[Bad Alias]

Not if Bob’s own survival is a built in priority.  The Council would have destroyed Bob after searching the ruins of Dumourn’s home.  Heck, finding out that Dumourn had stolen and concealed Bob would have lent more credibility to Harry’s claim that Justin was a Warlock.  So, Bob hurt Harry by convincing Harry to hide him. 

Does anyone else wonder if Dumourn was dead long before he adopted Harry? And that perhaps Dumourn isn’t who Harry thought he was?

Yes. If Dumorne was an upstanding warden, there's always the chance that he is actually Kemmler instead of all of a sudden going shady and stealing Bob. A lot of people think that Justin is really Kemmler. I kind of think not, but wouldn't be surprised if he was.

[g33k]

... Harry takes Bob at age 16 from Justin’s place & buries him somewhere safe before he turns himself into the Council. Harry is aware that he should hide Bob from everybody & never mentions the skull, After his apprenticeship with Ebenezer ends, Harry digs Bob back up so even Ebenezer never knew that Harry got Bob ...

With the caveat that I think the Council came & found Harry, he didn't turn himself in.  I'm pretty sure Justin never even told Harry of the existence of the WC; Harry couldn't have turned himself in!

Unless that was something from EIW & has been retconned...?

... I think Bob was never lost. I also think that Harry has it backwards, Bob got Harry just like Mouse won Harry. He thinks he rescued/claimed Bob. But I think Bob was meant to keep an eye on him. I am not certain Ebenezar knows Bob other than what he has heard...although I think it is interesting that the Wardens are/were aware of Bob when he worked for Kemmler. It isn't like Kemmler would have been advertising that spirit. But just as Justin was likely corrupted (perhaps further) by the Bob he took from Kemmler's lab, I think Bob was meant to be the same thing for Harry. But it backfired a bit because Harry is so willful and changed much of what Bob is. I think Bob has been keeping certain things from Harry because he has been ordered to and despite changing owners he can't break his word ...

That's a fascinating idea!

There's a certain way in which Bob can be seen as a through-line, the common element, tying DuMorne to Kemmler, and to older wizards (q,v. the other Bob/Eb thread, suggesting a stronger link between Bob & McCoy based on Evil Bob spotting "McCoy's Style" in Harry's staff). and the intention that Bob link Harry into that line, too...

Lots to ponder in this theory.  TYVM!

... I believe there's a WOJ that Bob told Harry to hide / bury the skull, and he came back for it after leaving Eb...

Huh.  Don't recall that one.  It'd settle the debate.  Any chance you could track the cite down?

Not if Bob’s own survival is a built in priority ...

I think Bob has a "survival instinct" of some sort.  We see it again and again and again.  I don't think Bob (the entity) is a construct, though -- it's not "built" in.

... Heck, finding out that Dumourn had stolen and concealed Bob would have lent more credibility to Harry’s claim that Justin was a Warlock.  So, Bob hurt Harry by convincing Harry to hide him ...

Very true, and an excellent point.  One that I think Bob couldn't have overlooked...

... Does anyone else wonder if Dumourn was dead long before he adopted Harry? And that perhaps Dumourn isn’t who Harry thought he was?

It's an interesting theory, but I don't see much support for it.  DuMorne has never been an "on-screen" character (except tiny "flashback" scenes).  I don't see much profit in swapping in some OTHER offscreen villain...  Unless it's actually someone from onscreen (McCoy, doing some sort of veil/disguise?  Langtry?  Or...?)

I particularly don't see it being Kemmler.  If Kemmler had pulled a capiorcorpus on DuMorne in the early 1960's, I cannot really see him waiting so many decades to make any serious move, and for that move then to be an indirect one like adopting a couple of orphans -- even potentially-powerful ones -- to raise as loyal servitors... yet another tactic involving a delay, as he waits for yet more years to train them into something with enough power to actually use.

Kemmler could simply have gone to a war-zone and done a Darkhallow.  Africa, Southeast Asia, plenty of conflicts with a million or more dead...