Did Harry lie to Michael, or worse?

[segaily]

I had always assumed Nic was talking about TWG but I must say the idea it could have been Nemesis does make a lot of sense.  Nic certainly seems more worried about the traitors in his own people then anything else so he could easily be more focused on Nemesis as the enemy at the moment. That idea also lines up better with his so often saying in the past that he and Dresden could be on the same side.   

[Mira]

I had always assumed Nic was talking about TWG but I must say the idea it could have been Nemesis does make a lot of sense.  Nic certainly seems more worried about the traitors in his own people then anything else so he could easily be more focused on Nemesis as the enemy at the moment. That idea also lines up better with his so often saying in the past that he and Dresden could be on the same side.   

 However I think there is little evidence of Nemesis infestation among the Fallen... Can a fallen angel even be infested?  If it is the host, is Nemesis so strong it can over come the influence of the fallen who inhabits the coin?  Now it could be that Satan and Nemesis are one in the same, but the the quarrels among the Denarians wouldn't make a whole lot of sense either..  I think the friction between the factions simply stems from the nature of the Fallen, why they were cast out of Heaven in the first place..  It is only natural they they'd fight among themselves for notice and for favor from their master..

[Avernite]

However I think there is little evidence of Nemesis infestation among the Fallen... Can a fallen angel even be infested?  If it is the host, is Nemesis so strong it can over come the influence of the fallen who inhabits the coin?  Now it could be that Satan and Nemesis are one in the same, but the the quarrels among the Denarians wouldn't make a whole lot of sense either..  I think the friction between the factions simply stems from the nature of the Fallen, why they were cast out of Heaven in the first place..  It is only natural they they'd fight among themselves for notice and for favor from their master..

I thought one of the Fallen was involved in the attack on Mab's palace in Proven Guilty, presumably Thorned Namshiel?

[Mira]

I thought one of the Fallen was involved in the attack on Mab's palace in Proven Guilty, presumably Thorned Namshiel?

Hell Fire was mentioned, however that doesn't mean that if it was him that he is Nemesis infested.  Remember the whole reason or rather excuse or cover for Skin Game was favors owed to Nic by Mab...  Of course we know that both sides were paying a much deeper game..

[morriswalters]

I thought one of the Fallen was involved in the attack on Mab's palace in Proven Guilty, presumably Thorned Namshiel?

The attack on Arctis Tor was probably the work of the Circle or Black Council. Perhaps indirectly instigated by Nemesis.  Answer the question, why attack at all, and you might be on your way to understanding. To this point in the book I have seen no support in the text for the idea that Nic knows of Nemesis.  I could be wrong.

[Mira]

The attack on Arctis Tor was probably the work of the Circle or Black Council. Perhaps indirectly instigated by Nemesis.  Answer the question, why attack at all, and you might be on your way to understanding. To this point in the book I have seen no support in the text for the idea that Nic knows of Nemesis.  I could be wrong.

At this point we still don't know who or what Nemesis is..  So it is merely speculation as to whether Nic knows or not who Nemesis is.. However it is doubtful that he didn't know of the attack.

[nadia.skylark]

To this point in the book I have seen no support in the text for the idea that Nic knows of Nemesis.  I could be wrong.

For once I have this book!

Small Favor:

"Have you not seen the signs around you?" Nicodemus asked.  "Beings acting against their natures? Creatures behaving in ways that they should not? The old conventions and customs being cast aside?"

I narrowed my eyes at him. "You're talking about the Black Council."

He tilted his head slightly to one side. Then his mouth twitched at a corner and he nodded his head very slightly. "They move in shadows, manipulate puppets. Some of them may be on your Council, yes. As good a name as any."

[Avernite]

Hell Fire was mentioned, however that doesn't mean that if it was him that he is Nemesis infested.  Remember the whole reason or rather excuse or cover for Skin Game was favors owed to Nic by Mab...  Of course we know that both sides were paying a much deeper game..

Not infected by Nemesis, merely recruited, would be just as possible I suppose. And would be just as much 'traitors' to Hell's cause.

[Mira]

Not infected by Nemesis, merely recruited, would be just as possible I suppose. And would be just as much 'traitors' to Hell's cause.

We have no clue as to what or who Nemesis is, so I think it is too early to jump to conclusions.. 

[Cozarkian]

Skin game spoiler

Did anyone else consider the symmetry in Harry sacrificing Susan and Nico sacrificing Deirdre. Of course it is not the same, but it is not so different either. If Nico and Deirdre believe they are saving the world from something and the only way to do it is by getting the artifacts.

Harry/Susan displayed the normal case of the parent sacrificing for the child. Nico/Deidre was a perversion where the child sacrificed for the parent.

Yeah, he was afraid she'd eat him..  I agree they weren't sixteen, but do not underestimate the power of the vamp venom...  Fear of being killed trumps responsible birth control I think, so rope over condom..  No excuses though I agree, but age had nothing to do with it, lots of "adults" turn up pregnant.   I doubt that either one of them even thought of the possibility that she might get pregnant, it wasn't their first sexual encounter after all..  So either they were very lucky before she was half turned and went away, or at least one of them was being responsible..

Susan was probably on birth control and Harry never stopped to think about the fact that she might not be any more.

For that matter, she could have been on birth control. According to WebMD, perfect use of birth control is only 99.7% effective, so 3 in 1,000 people will still get pregnant. Typical use failure rate increases to 9% because of factors like skipping a day, vomiting before it is fully absorbed, not taking it at the same time every day, and taking some other medication that interferes with it. Maybe being a half-vamp is one of those factors that interferes.

[/quote]

People can think whatever they like, it doesn't make them right.

TWG is the Enemy.  If we assume Lucifer and Nic have vaguely aligned goals (as shown by Lucifer aiding Nic in his attempt to grab the Archive) then Lucifer is, per Jim, doing something like playing a game of chess against TWG.  You gotta play the game to win it.  Nemesis wants to metaphorically toss the board and scatter the pieces.  And thus, while Nic/Lucifer may oppose Nemesis, the enemy is TWG.

When does Harry reveal to Nicodemus that there is a traitor within the ranks of Denarians? I believe it is after the attempt on Ivy, right?

There you have it. Deidre is doomed to hell, but dying in hades condemns her to hell with Hades rather than hell with Lucifer. Why does she need to avoid Lucifer? Because Lucifer is infected by the Enemy.

[nadia.skylark]

When does Harry reveal to Nicodemus that there is a traitor within the ranks of Denarians? I believe it is after the attempt on Ivy, right?

Just before then, actually. It was during their conversation in the Shedd.

[peregrine]

She doesn't need to avoid Lucifer, she needs to avoid eternal damnation for all the horrible shit she did.  As handed down by TWG, aka The Enemy.

After all, if he wanted to hide her from Lucifer, why would he be working with Lucifer to get the hellfire trap in Small Favor?

And Namshiel being bent doesn't by any means indicate that Lucifer is infected.