Can you take Human Form without taking Beast Change?

[lordphrofet]

So I am about to start my first Dresden campaign as a GM. I have a player who wants to play a descendant (Scion) of a classical European red dragon. He wants to shapeshift from his human form into a dragon form. He is taking inhuman str, toughness, claws and channeling fire. He wants to take human form to get some refresh back but I said Human Form only works if you have Beast Change or some other shape shifting ability and that he could only transform between a human form and a "powered form" with a shapeshifting ability. Can anyone elaborate on how this is supposed to work?

[Taran]

Welcome!

Human form just refers to powers that you don’t have access to all the time.  So, you don’t have to have Beast shape. Mechanically, Beast shape gives you a skill shuffle(which is totally worth the refresh) but not necessary.  It just means his dragon form has the same skill set as human form.

There doesn’t always have to be a physical change (the gang in Fool Moon stayed human but became stronger etc...)

Given that he has claws and toughness, I’d say there might be some physical changes when he taps those powers: elongated talons, scales, for example.  But if he doesn’t have beast change and doesn’t have a high fist skill, he won’t be very good with those claws((or his breath weapon) unless he takes beast change.

[lordphrofet]

Given that he has claws and toughness, I’d say there might be some physical changes when he taps those powers: elongated talons, scales, for example.  But if he doesn’t have beast change and doesn’t have a high fist skill, he won’t be very good with those claws((or his breath weapon) unless he takes beast change.

This is the part that bothers me. Since he doesn't have any ability that lets him change forms (shapeshift) how does he all of a sudden grow claws, scales, etc?

[Taran]

Human form lets him shapeshift.  It says so in the description of the power in the first line:  “you’re a shapeshifter”

For instance, let’s say he’s a crappy fighter with a fist score of +1

When he shape shifts into a dragon form, he’s still a crappy fighter.  It doesn’t imbue him with any instinctual ability to bite or claw someone. 

If he takes beast shape, the instinct kicks in.  Now he shuffles his skill tree to move fists to +4.

Human form can be used for anything.  It assumes you are in a Human Form with no powers.  You could, for example, be an angelic scion.

You take human form and attach Inhuman Speed and Wings to it.  This represents your ability to sprout wings and fly around.  There’s no need to take beast shape. 

In fact, shape shifting could be completely narrative with no powers attached to it, as long as you have an aspect that can be compelled or invoked.

He definitely should have an aspect tied to human form.  It’ll probably be his High Concept.  You are the GM so if you think he should have beast form, then that’s your prerogative but it certainly isn’t necessary.  The character will be way more useful if he takes beast form though.

The question you should both be asking is, will beast form fit the character? 
Is he a dweeb that isn’t comfortable in his shifter form? Then low fists and no need for beast form.  Is he a pro fighter that enhances his fighting abilities with claws and scales? Then high fists and no beast form.

Is he a social butterfly who lets his inner dragon sometimes take over? Then He should max his social skills, take beast form and reshuffle his skills when he’s fighting. 

Maybe he’s a super perceptive private eye who uses his dragon form to protect himself, then he can max alertness and investigate and take beast form for the skill shuffle.

[lordphrofet]

Human form let’s him shapeshift.  It says so in the description of the power in the first line:  “you’re a shapeshifter”

I figured that was just a fluff description. Usually in other systems that part really isn't relevant to the feat, power, etc. and is sometimes even contradictory (looking at you 3.5). So it looks like I get to eat some crow and stand corrected unless someone else has a radically different interpretation. I thank everyone for their experience and help.

[Taran]

In dfrpg fluff matters as much as the mechanics.  As I mentioned earlier, you could be a shapeshifter and not have any related powers if you have an appropriate aspect. 

[vultur]

I've wondered about this too... but Taran is right, Lycanthropes in YS and OW have Human Form without Beast Change/True Shapeshifting/any other shapeshifting category power. So it's definitely canonically possible.

Human Form just means you don't have access to (some subset of) your powers while you're looking human. If the form change doesn't change your perceptions/focus/priorities like a werewolf change (the in-world representation of the skill-shifting Beast Change represents), Beast Change wouldn't necessarily make sense.

The introduction section to Shapeshifting powers says "Unless explicitly noted otherwise, shape-shifting may be done as a supplemental action."

So I'd say if you have Human Form without Beast Change (or Rare/Involuntary Change, like lycanthropes, which has its own set of rules) then you can shift form as a supplemental action... but all the shift does mechanically is unlock the powers under Human Form. (The fact that you now have claws and stuff is going to have story implications, though, which could tie into High Concept Invoke/Compels... like invoking your high concept to help intimidate someone, or compelling it to scare away potentially useful allies...)

EDIT: I always forget that Lycanthropes are a PC template in YS...

[Sanctaphrax]

You can take Human Form without Beast Change.

But if I were your player, I'd definitely take Beast Change. It's an amazingly useful Power. Especially for someone who wants to use both Channelling (Fire) and Claws. Being both a spellcaster and a brawler is way more manageable when you have two whole skill pyramids to work with.

EDIT: I always forget that Lycanthropes are a PC template in YS...

I've been playing this game for a long time, and I'm not sure I've ever seen a lycanthrope PC.