Author Topic: A Positive Death "Curse"  (Read 9021 times)

Offline groinkick

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Re: A Positive Death "Curse"
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2018, 06:41:58 AM »
Harry's Mom didn't do it to protect or save anyone though.  She did it to get back at Raith.

She did more than just that.  She sandbagged the entire White Court according to Jim.  So Raith's pain was a bonus but I get the impression it was also a tactical move.  I don't remember everything Jim said but it seemed like she did have a purpose larger than just Raith when she did what she did.
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline KurtinStGeorge

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Re: A Positive Death "Curse"
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2018, 07:12:44 AM »
Interesting thought, I'm not sure if it's possible, but if it happened like you think it would, we'd have "bloodlines" of wizards getting more powerful every generation.

We don't hear about family lines of wizards in the DF.  (Maybe this should be part of another thread.)  Harry is the exception in the series, so far.  He knows his mother was a powerful wizard and he knows one grandfather, who is on the Senior Council.  Long lived wizards can outlive their progeny; especially those who are born as vanilla mortals, and some wizards; like those who become wardens, have a more dangerous lifestyle than a wizard who spends most of their time doing magical research.  So the wizard doing research could still outlive his higher risk taking, though magically gifted children.  Add to this the secretive nature of being a wizard and you have a lot of people who don't communicate well with others, including members of their own families. 

Of course we can put down our lack of knowledge of other wizard families to Harry's general isolation from the White Council for most of his life, but we do know a little about one other wizard.  In Turn Coat Harry asked Luccio if she had family.  She replied "Yes. Technically." ... "The men and women I grew up with...They've been dead for generations."  OK, so maybe these people weren't her brothers and sisters, maybe she's talking about cousins, but it seems a bit cold to me.  Perhaps that would be a natural adaptation to outliving so the people you grew up with, and many others you met along the way who aged and died while you kept rolling along, but it suggests that many wizards live somewhat dysfunctional lives by normal standards.  Most of them must have a hard time getting close to others after they have been around for a while and gone through this cycle a couple of times.       
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Offline Fcrate

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Re: A Positive Death "Curse"
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2018, 08:33:59 AM »
I understand their coldness towards vanilla blood family, but that's not what I meant.  The OP question is about a positive death curse to transfer power to an ally. What I meant by "bloodlines" wasn't literal blood relations, but say from master to a former apprentice who's moral code is just like his or her master, and they being closer to the master than blood family ever could be. And so on down the generations, with mortal wizards becoming more powerful with every one.
هل أخذت الغاب مثلي منزلاً دون القصور
فتتبعت السواقي وتسلقت الصخور
هل تحممت بعطره وتنشفت بنور
وشربت الفجر خمراً من كؤوس من أثير

Offline KurtinStGeorge

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Re: A Positive Death "Curse"
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2018, 09:03:31 PM »
Your right, my post didn't address the OP at all, so this one will.  Who would make this kind of life enhancing sacrifice, if it's possible to do so?  It's not going to be the Merlin, I'm fairly confident in making that prediction.  He might lay down a huge death curse to help Harry; though he would probably see it as helping the White Council.  This is probably true of most of the important wizards on the Council.  I think the only person who would make the kind of sacrifice you suggest is Ebenezer, because he has a personal family relationship with Harry.  It might even be this type of closeness which would make such a thing possible.
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Offline Jack of Hearts

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Re: A Positive Death "Curse"
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2018, 01:18:13 AM »
Quote
Your right, my post didn't address the OP at all, so this one will.  Who would make this kind of life enhancing sacrifice, if it's possible to do so?  It's not going to be the Merlin, I'm fairly confident in making that prediction.  He might lay down a huge death curse to help Harry; though he would probably see it as helping the White Council.  This is probably true of most of the important wizards on the Council.  I think the only person who would make the kind of sacrifice you suggest is Ebenezer, because he has a personal family relationship with Harry.  It might even be this type of closeness which would make such a thing possible.
  This is what I was thinking as well. If any of this is possible I could see Ebenezer doing something like this in order to save Harry's life or give him another boost in power at a time when he needs it. Also you made me think of another question to ask but I will save that for a separate post.

Offline LordDresden2

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Re: A Positive Death "Curse"
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2018, 05:16:30 AM »
Yes, a death 'curse' could be used to do something good for somebody, if the Wizard wanted to do it.  Harry actually contemplates that, in fact, in Fool Moon, when he thought he was about to be killed.  One to the options he considered was using his death curse to cure MacFinn and break the loup garou curse on the bloodline.

I would call that a 'death blessing'.

Offline KurtinStGeorge

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Re: A Positive Death "Curse"
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2018, 06:00:38 AM »
Yes, a death 'curse' could be used to do something good for somebody, if the Wizard wanted to do it.  Harry actually contemplates that, in fact, in Fool Moon, when he thought he was about to be killed.  One to the options he considered was using his death curse to cure MacFinn and break the loup garou curse on the bloodline.

I would call that a 'death blessing'.

Good catch, assuming Harry could have pulled it off.
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Offline Paviel

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Re: A Positive Death "Curse"
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2018, 10:11:35 AM »
I wouldn't work too hard in trying to fit religious figures like Jesus into the Dresden Files.  I'd suggest treat it as an anomaly, then we aren't discussing too touchy subjects and trying to fit real world religious thought into fictitious magical theory.

I wouldn't either. But Jesus has been confirmed to be a real figure in the Dresden Files, and Mab even mentioned his suffering on the cross in "Changes."

Even just based on what the Dresden Files say about the White Christ, I think it's fair to ask whether he had cast a Death Blessing or not.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 10:35:36 AM by Paviel »

Offline LordDresden2

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Re: A Positive Death "Curse"
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2018, 07:09:05 PM »
Good catch, assuming Harry could have pulled it off.

There's no way to know, but my guess is that Harry is strong enough to at least free MacFinn himself for the rest of his life, if not the overall bloodline.  If Harry's spell could block the curse from drawing energy from the victims, then the curse would fade away even if it was too strong for Harry to directly erase.

Like JB said once, a Wizard's death curse/blessing is only as powerful as the Wizard's cleverness and imagination and magical skill.

Offline Kindler

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Re: A Positive Death "Curse"
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2018, 03:29:07 PM »
Maggie neutering Raith with her death curse is an interesting case, as she anchored the spell to her family line. As long as one of her descendants lives, he can't feed.

Would it be possible to put a different spin on that, and create a lasting, net positive effect anchored to a bloodline? 

Offline toodeep

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Re: A Positive Death "Curse"
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2018, 04:21:14 PM »
Maggie neutering Raith with her death curse is an interesting case, as she anchored the spell to her family line. As long as one of her descendants lives, he can't feed.

We don't really know this, there was a bunch of guess work involved in it.  Remember, she was no where near Thomas when she died.  How does she have the ability to tie a spell like that to him without his agreement?  Things like that are unclear.  It seems likely she could have done something like that with her newborn son who was right there, though.  The spell may very well have been linked to just Harry.  Also, unbeknownst at the time, her father was still alive.  If she could tie it to anyone related, maybe she tied it to him too?  We don't really have proof of how that all worked, just guesswork.

Offline groinkick

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Re: A Positive Death "Curse"
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2018, 05:33:01 PM »
We don't really know this, there was a bunch of guess work involved in it.  Remember, she was no where near Thomas when she died.  How does she have the ability to tie a spell like that to him without his agreement?  Things like that are unclear.  It seems likely she could have done something like that with her newborn son who was right there, though.  The spell may very well have been linked to just Harry.  Also, unbeknownst at the time, her father was still alive.  If she could tie it to anyone related, maybe she tied it to him too?  We don't really have proof of how that all worked, just guesswork.

She share's Thomas's blood which is most likely how she designed the spell.  No agreement is required.  Curses used to kill people via their blood doesn't require permission.  Sidhe need to strike deals with people, wizards do not.  Well the guess work was done by both Lord Raith, and Harry Dresden.  Could be wrong but between the two of them it's most likely accurate.
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.