Mortal infrastructure/networking power

[JayTee]

Throughout most of the series and even in the game books, The Dresden Files makes a big deal about how scary and dangerous humans are when they all band together and go after something they see as a threat.

However, the game itself never really gives you much of a way to reproduce that kind of effect, as the focus is usually on a small group of PCs running around and solving problems mostly single-handedly.

Is there any way to properly emulate the kind of resource that mortal infrastructure and social networks offer? My current thought is to rewrite Thaumaturgy using Contacts for Complexity, Resources for drawing power and Presence for controlling power and rewriting the functions of Thaumaturgy (summoning and binding, conjuration, etc) to be more based on conventional means. But this smacks in to the problem of using Contacts and Resources excessively, which I see as a little boring, but perhaps that's unavoidable.

[Taran]

I think it's a neat idea...

[Sanctaphrax]

I wouldn't use a straight Thaumaturgy adaptation, since there's a lot that Thaumaturgy can do which isn't too appropriate for human infrastructure. Still, something thaumaturgy-ish could work pretty well.

For a quicker and easier approach, you can just use a Stunt. Something like...

Political Connections (Contacts): Add a Political Power trapping to Contacts, which you can use to make the government do things.

It's almost completely freeform, but it's also by-the-book and really simple.

Although...while I'm brainstorming, it might be best not to make this a character trait at all. Maybe there could just be a set of guidelines for how mortal infrastructure behaves, and a set of rules that any character can use to affect said infrastructure.

[JayTee]

I'm not so certain that there is so much that only thaumaturgy can do that it wouldn't work. A lot of it's functions have a clear mundane parallel when you invoke the trappings of modern civilization.

Summoning and Binding becomes Hiring and Subcontracting. The "Containing" "Summoning" process becomes a contract negotiation over pay and services, for the "Binding" phase instead mentally subduing a target, you instead sought out a highly reliable or professional individual.

Conjuration becomes Delivery. The item in question is simply brought to your person via mail or a specialized currier service. In this case it's even better than Thaumaturgy because it can waive the restriction on complex object.

Divination becomes Social Networking. Instead of conjuring the information out of nowhere, you instead call around to your support network to see if any of them have any idea of the knowledge you're looking for.

Veils and Wards becomes Subcontracting. In this case, you're basically paying someone trustworthy to build and maintain a series of defenses around your base or whatever else you have in mind.

Item Crafting becomes Requisitioning. Magical items and potions become expensive or experimental devices that are difficult to reproduce and have been loaned out to you.

Transformation and Disruption is harder to do a direct conversation, and may instead become focused on doing social attacks from a distance, and getting the crowd to do something for you, becoming Campaigning and Inciting the Masses.

Transportation and Worldwalking becomes regular old Transportation. It'll be slower than the magical version, but you have the added benefit of not putting your life in danger by creatures of the Nevernever.

[Sanctaphrax]

I think you're making my point for me; while mortal means can accomplish many of the same goals as thaumaturgy, it often can't replicate the means. And sometimes those means will be the goals.

If I want to turn someone into a duck, enter the Nevernever, create an illusionary dragon the size of a city, or redirect the course of a hurricane, magic is my only option.

Also, many/most enchanted items and potions make little sense as gadgets.

[JayTee]

I mean, I never argued that there were some thaumaturgic means that mortal methods could replicate. It's not a huge deal to me if Thaumaturgy can do a few things that this hypothetical power can't.

My aim is to try and replicate the effect of having vast support network in the form of modern society to draw upon. Adding Contacts and Resources to your sheet with a few stunts is kinda boring and simplistic for what it's supposed to represent, whereas repurposing Thaumaturgy can represent the investments you've made in to different aspects of society.

[Sanctaphrax]

Thinking about it a bit more, most of the differences between rituals and infrastructure could be managed with small edits. There are four sticking points that come to mind, though.

First, enchanted items. They should probably just not exist for the infrastructure power. Could go either way on foci.

Second, time. Rituals can take a long time to prepare, but the actual casting always takes less than a day (barring weird corner cases). Spell control is often measured in exchanges, with the idea that you'll sometimes be casting while something is trying to kill you. You'll probably want to revise that for the infrastructure power; managing a project is much slower than casting a spell, but it's also much easier to multitask.

Third, human sacrifice. Ritualists can inflict consequences on other people to build complexity. Don't think that makes much sense for infrastructure, although I can think of ways to boost a project with your own consequences.

Fourth, backlash and fallout. Rituals explode when they fail, often with catastrophic results. Projects can go terribly wrong, but I don't think flubbing one management roll should cause a catastrophe the way it does with a ritual. Also, anywhere where a ritual would hit the caster with mental or physical stress a project should probably hit the manager with social stress.

[Taran]

Third, human sacrifice. Ritualists can inflict consequences on other people to build complexity. Don't think that makes much sense for infrastructure, although I can think of ways to boost a project with your own consequences.

Sweat shops, forcing interns to work unreasonably/unhealthily long hours, unsafe working conditions, unreasonable goal-oriented jobs that risk getting fired if they aren't met like high pressure sales(represented by mental consequences) can all be represented by adding complexity through consequences.

[Sanctaphrax]

I guess. The effect seems a lot less dramatic than what you see with magic, though. You can cast a pretty sizeable ritual with no prep, just by killing someone.

[Arjan]

Their greatest power however is story telling.

Fear, worship, faith, knowledge about them. They all need it to manifest here and it dictates how they manifest here.

It took ages for the old "I demand human sacrifices" Odin to change into the Kringle we all know and some of those changes are fairly recent but these changes are all brought by human storytelling.

What would the erlking be without Goethe and Schubert?

[Ulfgeir]

Fourth, backlash and fallout. Rituals explode when they fail, often with catastrophic results. Projects can go terribly wrong, but I don't think flubbing one management roll should cause a catastrophe the way it does with a ritual. Also, anywhere where a ritual would hit the caster with mental or physical stress a project should probably hit the manager with social stress.

Well, a project can turn easily disastrous. For example say you organize a protest rally to do something, and some hothead escalates things into physical violence or do something tremendeously bad, and you know you were responsible for giving the person the opportunity to do it.

/Ulfgeir

[whitelaughter]

By the game mechanics, a mob of mortals is sitting on shedloads of fate points, so simply describe whatever sounds amusing and announce that the mortals have spend 20+ fate points to back that as multiple Aspects.