Justin, Elaine, and Kumori

[Drikonn]

So, a lot of speculation about Justin has brought forward the idea that he was actually more of an anti-hero type than an evil warlock. The evidence to the contrary is that he thralled Elaine. The only evidence I can recall is her saying she was a thrall.

Now, if Elaine is truly Kumori and therefore an acquaintance with the extremely evil Cowl, she would have every reason to lie. It’s a great reason for Harry to trust her, especially since he would reflexively look for a reason that Justin was evil.

I think Justin was just willing to do almost whatever was required to stop Nemesis, including not treating his human weapons with kid gloves. Harry ran away and Elaine was left alone after the big fight. A scared and vulnerable teenager is exactly the kind of person a Nemesis follower would recruit.

As such, I submit that Elaine has been playing him for a very long time and that Justin is actually a utilitarian good guy. Also, I say is because Jim said that Harry was as dead as Justin in Ghost Story.

[Kindler]

Also, I say is because Jim said that Harry was as dead as Justin in Ghost Story.

Whoa, hang on; is there a source for this? I don't recall that one anywhere, and that's pretty big.

[Foxed]

The source is Word of Jim. He didn't literally say that, but he has referred to both Justin and Harry between Changes and GS as D-E-D dead.

[Foxed]

For what it's worth, if you try to limit textual references to the first book in which Cowl appeared, it's pretty obvious that Cowl is Justin.

A. Knows about Bob.

B. We get a lot of Justin info in a book that mostly not about Justin but is about a cowled and mysterious antagonist.

C. Reference to seeing Harry for himself is that he needed to see how Harry had turned out for himself, not that he had never met Harry. If Justin is Cowl, he hasn't seen Harry since Harry got the drop on him as a boy.

[wardenferry419]

For what it's worth, if you try to limit textual references to the first book in which Cowl appeared, it's pretty obvious that Cowl is Justin.

A. Knows about Bob.

B. We get a lot of Justin info in a book that mostly not about Justin but is about a cowled and mysterious antagonist.

C. Reference to seeing Harry for himself is that he needed to see how Harry had turned out for himself, not that he had never met Harry. If Justin is Cowl, he hasn't seen Harry since Harry got the drop on him as a boy.

If Justin is Cowl than death reaally improved his magical aptitude.

[Kindler]

The source is Word of Jim. He didn't literally say that, but he has referred to both Justin and Harry between Changes and GS as D-E-D dead.

I recall the Justin one, but not that he used the same phrase to describe Harry. I thought the Word of Jim mentioned in the OP was Jim flat out saying "Harry is as dead as Justin," which puts a different spin on it.

I'll take you at your word that he used the same phrase.

I've been pretty sure that Justin's still alive anyway. There's just no way that Harry doesn't get answers by the end of things. Personally, I think that Mirror Mirror will reveal that Justin's alive over there, which freaks Harry out, so he goes looking for him in the Prime universe.

I'm not entirely sold on Cowl being Justin, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. It's one of several possibilities I entertain. It has a certain symmetry, especially with the Outsider influence in White Night. And, you know, the White Court shenanigans taking place with He Who Walks Behind was kind of a cluebat.

[Rasins]

While it's not a deal breaker for me, if Justin is Cowl, I'll be disappointed.

Justin is dead and gone.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

For what it's worth, if you try to limit textual references to the first book in which Cowl appeared, it's pretty obvious that Cowl is Justin.
A. Knows about Bob.

I suspect, given the White Court intel reports on Harry's place that get mentioned in BR, knowing about Bob may be more widespread than Harry assumes.

C. Reference to seeing Harry for himself is that he needed to see how Harry had turned out for himself, not that he had never met Harry. If Justin is Cowl, he hasn't seen Harry since Harry got the drop on him as a boy.

Works equally well with Cowl being some other member of the cabal Justin and Maggie and Lord Raith were part of; and since the mention of Simon Pietrovich having a female apprentice, I have been pretty much entirely convinced Cowl is Simon, with only about a 5% chance that "Cowl" is one identity used by a number of different people working together whenever they have to deal with other supernaturals.