Bringing in players

[prophet224]

Howdy folks!  I'm relatively new to FATE and haven't gotten to play yet.  Partly this is because I am not normally the GM/DM for our group, and I will have to be the GM for this.  Partly it's because my friends are hesitant.

They are strongly D20 and WoD people.  FATE, while very flexible, requires a very different mindset as well.  In the 'Basics' I would put not 'Friends' but 'Friends who are introspective enough to play cooperatively and not make it about one upsmanship'.  Sorry, that's a problem we have.

Even the good ones, however, are hesitant about mixing magic and the 'real world'.  They've tried a few D20 modern games like that which didn't work out.  They are currently playing Vampire, which gets around this  by being modern but not the real world.  Dresden, however, takes the 'real world' and overlays it with other things going on.  Nothing is out in the open, but it is very much our world.

So does anyone have suggestions on these issues?  It seems that you really need the right players for FATE to work.  It can also be a problem with suspension of disbelief to have magic in a setting that is supposed to be "current day".  Thoughts?

[finarvyn]

Well, your definition of "real world" seems to be a little different than mine. They'll play Vampire but are worried about Dresden? 

When folks ask me about Dresden Files, I list off a few modern-day source materials that they may or may not have heard of. Sometimes in the middle of the list they have an "ah ha" moment and start to nod -- they kind of see what we're about here.

Consider these:
Movies and Television
* Charmed
* Buffy the Vampire Slayer
* Kindred TV miniseries
* The mystical parts of Indiana Jones
* Kolchak: the Night Stalker (TV in the '70's)
* John Carpenter's Vampire$
* Underworld
* Resident Evil is full of zombies (created by science)
Books and RPGs
* Vampire/Werewolf/Mage/Changeling
* Monte Cook's WOD (d20 version of the above)
* Call of Cthulhu / Lovecraft fiction
* "An Old Friend of the Family" by Fred Saberhagen
* Adept series by Katherine Kurtz
* Diana Tregarde books by Mercedes Lackey
* Laurell K. Hamilton
* Vampire books by Anne Rice
* Kelley Armstrong and Kim Harrison books.
* Lord Darcy books by Randall Garrett

Heck, the list keeps going. Modern-day vampires and magic isn't a new thing at all. (Harry Dresden's just the best of the lot, in my opinion.)

I think that all of these are set in the "real world" in one way or another. Or in one time period or another. All of these make use of some form of supernatural events and/or creatures, and playing the DFPRG could be done with any of the above as a primary inspiration for a campaign.

I don't see that Dresden is any worse than any of the others.

So ... give 'em the list. See what aspect of the game seems best to them. If they'd rather play Dresden more like an episode of Charmed (my wife is into this) then do it that way. If they'd rather play a Vanhelsing monster hunter, then do it that way instead. Get 'em in the door and you can let plotlines drift the way you like once you've reeled 'em in.

That's my two cents worth.

[TheMouse]

I've run two sessions of an Exalted gaming using FATE. The players were a little tentative about playing something something so out there (in their experience). Today, my players were going on and on about how flexible the system was and how much fun they were having with it. I think if you can talk your players into at least trying it out, and if you explain about how the game is supposed to work, your players might surprise you.

Dresden takes place in a world which is like our own, but it doesn't really matter that much. It's also a world where folks wield swords and ancient monsters don't tear your face off because they are bound by oaths even older. The stories often take place in the cracks between modern places. When things spill over into modern places, the places are often overwhelmed by the events (or do you think that having a raging werewolf ripping everyone to pieces in a police department is really, fundamentally different than a scene where it happens in a castle, with all that blood and panic?).

[Soulless Mystic5523]

If they play WoD, tell them to think of it as Mage: The Awakening without paradox. And if that doesn't tickle their fancy, then I don't know what would. I've played quite a bit of Mage, and always wanted to just let loose with my magic, but with paradox, you just can't really do that without alot of planing ahead.

[Lanodantheon]

Suspending Disbelief for the Dresden Files is easy. You can get it out of the way, saying "This is what we're playing" in 2 ways:

1. Show the players the Dresden Files TV Show or a show like it based on your preference(Buffy, Angel, X-Files, etc.) This is the most effective because it is visual.

2. Have members of your group read parts of the Dresden Files Novels (Or play the audio books for them).

But those are the very direct approaches. I also agree with the previous comment that if your group is into WoD, then pitch it as Mage without paradox. The only thing about it you have to explain is that TDF magic still follows the laws of physics. THat would also be the easiest.

If your group is hesitant about magic and reality because they wonder, "How can they be in the same place at the same time and not step on toes?" and attempts like D20 Modern has failed, explain the Dresden world to them. It is important to communicate that Maigc in TDF is in addition to modern world, not instead of. You can have the Dirty Harry inspired Detective side by side with a bookworm Wizard and Fox Mulder and it isn't a weird thing. Hell, The draw of TDF is that Harry Dresden is all 3 of those in the same character.

Hope that helps you.

[prophet224]

Folks, thank you.  This is all very true, and as you mention, Lanodantheon, Harry IS all of those in one.  That is part of why it is so enjoyable.

I'm not sure why they have such a mental block about it.  I wonder if it simply has to do with it not working too well, or trying to fit something into the D20 shell.

In Dresden, magic really does 'overlay' the real world, or is in addition to it, and I think a lot of the populace when there are this many people on Earth simply aren't going to have encountered the things that go bump in the night.

Thanks for the thoughts, folks.

On another side... anybody ever play In Nomine?  I feel like FATE would work really well for that... hehehe... "Gaming on a higher plane".

[TheMouse]

I've played In Nomine. The d666 system is wonky, to say the least. It's too bad, because the setting is a lot of fun.

Converting it to FATE shouldn't be too terribly difficult. You have to select a list of 20-30 skills to cover the bases. Your Choir/Band and Archangel/Demon Lord could give you Stunts. Additional Stunts could represent much of the rest, including Songs. Dissonance is covered by appropriate Aspects.

Celestial competence is easily taken up by a concept from FUDGE: Scale. The 0 scale is human, +1 is Ethereal, and +2 is Celestial. A Celestial being against a human or performing human scale tasks would get an automatic +2 to everything.

Not too difficult.

[finarvyn]

I wonder if it simply has to do with it not working too well, or trying to fit something into the D20 shell.

If they're really into d20 game systems, you might take a look at Monte Cook's World of Darkness" which is essentially a d20 version of the White Wolf setting. (With some tweaks, I guess. I don't really know either setting well enough for a valid comparrison.) The point is that WoD seems somewhat Dresden-like if you emphasize the wizard parts of the setting and maybe that would help you get your foot in the door with your game group.

The key is to tell them you're running one world (WoD, Buffy, whatever) and then slide in whatever Dresden elements you want to put into your campaign. You don't have to say "let's play Dresden" but you can slant the campaign that way and they won't notice or won't care that it's in there.

[prophet224]

Thanks.  It's not that they are anti-dresden, it's that they are afraid that too much magic too close to home would be hard to digest, because it's turned out badly before. 

And we need to get away from d20, too.
Anyway, I may be needing to find a new group eventually anyway, as we're trying to move.  We shall see if that comes to pass.