Sacred Guardian (old vs. new)

[HobbitGuy1420]

So, I've heard from several places that Sacred Guardian as written in Your Story is a poorly-written power.  I understand this, but am having trouble actually communicating it.  Can anyone help me to put into words why old-version SG is problematic?

While we're at it, I've also seen an opinion that the new version is overpowered - and that, I can't see, as it essentially acts as systems justification for an effect that basically had narrative justification anyway...  any thoughts?

I searched before making this thread, but couldn't find anything on the subject on these forums, so...

[Locnil]

It's overpowered, basically, especially for non-spellcasting characters. Add hefty bonuses to your attack rolls, and bypass Catches, all for 1 Refresh.

Haven't heard any word on the new one, though. Did they update it in the Paranet Papers?

[HobbitGuy1420]

Yes - now it just serves as Catch justification (no cost)

[toturi]

It's overpowered, basically, especially for non-spellcasting characters. Add hefty bonuses to your attack rolls, and bypass Catches, all for 1 Refresh.

But you take damage in the old version, to get those bonuses (which for the combined cost of Refresh and damage isn't really that hefty).

I haven't seen the new version yet.

[PirateJack]

The Sword of the Cross requires a fate point to satisfy the Catch, so I think it should probably run along those lines.

[HobbitGuy1420]

Tot, the issue is that Stress isn't damage - it's the *potential* for damage.  Damage is reflected by Consequences, and the circumstances in which Sacred Guardian can be used (in my experience) generally allow the user to avoid taking Consequences unless there's an external source of Mental stress around (which there rarely is).

[toturi]

Tot, the issue is that Stress isn't damage - it's the *potential* for damage.  Damage is reflected by Consequences, and the circumstances in which Sacred Guardian can be used (in my experience) generally allow the user to avoid taking Consequences unless there's an external source of Mental stress around (which there rarely is).

To me, taking stress is damage. Sometimes it is temporary because you did not fill up the stress track in question but sometimes you could be taking a Consequence, especially if you are talking about a spellcaster.

[Sanctaphrax]

The old version is too good (by most standards - IIRC toturi plays in pretty high-powered games and will accept a lot of stuff that I wouldn't) because it gives huge bonuses. +4 to an attack or defence roll is just massive. Plus it lets you satisfy some Catches, which is pretty handy. All for the low low cost of 1 Refresh. And it's very versatile. It doesn't require any particular skill. Might even be usable in mental and social conflicts, as written.

Only drawback is that it costs mental stress. And filling your mental stress track is harmless in most fights. I guess it might get fairer if your game is mental-attack-heavy.

The new version is kinda hard to judge. You satisfy the Catches of many monsters, but which ones depends entirely on your GM's judgement. I guess it depends on who you play with.

[zakmo86]

I've never seen this power before. What page is it on in the book?

[Haru]

I've never seen this power before. What page is it on in the book?

It's with the temple dogs in Our World. Page 78.

[zakmo86]

It's with the temple dogs in Our World. Page 78.

Thank you!!!!

[HobbitGuy1420]

The revised version is in the Paranet Papers page 333, for comparison

[moireth]

The new version seems severely under powered compared to the old one.