Which Bonuses for Evothaum?

[vultur]

OK, yeah, as long as you can use existing evocation foci for evothaum, not limited to evothaum-only foci, I don't see the problem.

[Sanctaphrax]

Evocation uses Power and control.  Thaumaturgy uses Complexity and Control.  Therefore evo-thaum uses evocation foci because complexity won't boost an evocation spell - only power does that.

Not necessarily. Evothaum might use special evothaum foci. Or it might not use any foci at all.

The rules really don't mention this issue. There are no RAW.

Anyway, I know from personal experience that using evocation foci for evothaum can be problematic. So I'd be inclined to use thaumaturgy foci, or perhaps special evothaum foci. (Complexity would count as Power, if using thaumaturgy foci.)

I'm not sure whether or not that counts as a houserule. Doesn't matter much, really...it's mostly just a question of how you define the word houserule.

[Taran]

Anyway, I know from personal experience that using evocation foci for evothaum can be problematic.

I'm actually curious how it's problematic.  Do you feel it is too powerful to use evocation foci for evothaum?

For example:

If I'm a wizard with Thaum and Evocation, I can take all my foci and boost evocation fire magic.  Dividing it between power or control or just boosting one of those as high as I can (since it's limited by Lore)

If I have Summer sponsored magic,  I can put all my foci into the element "summer" the same way as I did with fire.

Is it overpowered because "Summer" is much more flexible?

[Sanctaphrax]

It seems a bit overpowered to me, since pumping up your Evocation is really good even without the extra benefit of being able to apply the bonus to some more complicated spells.

But the power isn't my main concern. I just find it problematic when a character's evothaum is much better than their actual thaumaturgy. Elena in EtA has a set-up like that, and it has produced some weirdness. Having your effectiveness reduced by taking extra time to cast makes little sense, and when you cast big spells it encourages you to consider using a pseudo-ritual with Evocation and a bunch of maneuvers. Which is just mechanically obtuse.

[Tedronai]

On the other hand, allowing the use of Thaumaturgy Foci for what is fundamentally Evocation is mechanically strictly superior to using Evocation Foci unless you institute additional rules of some kind to address the fact that Evocation Foci must be split between offensive and defensive roles.

[Sanctaphrax]

You've got a point, but I'd shy away from saying "strictly". If you use thaumaturgy foci for your evothaum then you can't use those foci for big attacks. Evothaum just doesn't do those. And depending on rules intepretation there may be other things that Evocation is better than Evothaum at.

[GryMor]

It seems a bit overpowered to me, since pumping up your Evocation is really good even without the extra benefit of being able to apply the bonus to some more complicated spells.

It's not overpowered, at least partly on account of the defense/offense split.

I just find it problematic when a character's evothaum is much better than their actual thaumaturgy. Elena in EtA has a set-up like that, and it has produced some weirdness. Having your effectiveness reduced by taking extra time to cast makes little sense, and when you cast big spells it encourages you to consider using a pseudo-ritual with Evocation and a bunch of maneuvers. Which is just mechanically obtuse.

Taking extra time doesn't reduce your effectiveness, while the base complexity of no prep thaumaturgy will almost always be lower than what you could pour into a big bang evocation (effective conviction + 3 from burning your 4th stress box) thaumaturgy doesn't have an upper bound the way evocation effectively does, and doesn't eat your stress. On the gripping hand, evocation effects are inherently more powerful, point for point, than their equivalent thaumaturgy cousins, even when produced by evothaum.

[Tedronai]

If you use thaumaturgy foci for your evothaum then you can't use those foci for big attacks. Evothaum just doesn't do those. And depending on rules intepretation there may be other things that Evocation is better than Evothaum at.

All of this is 'depending on rules interpretation'.  And the 'rules interpretation' that supports it is one that ignored the strongest statement we have with regards to how evothaum actually works.

[Sanctaphrax]

I know, but the strongest statement is still pretty weak. So I don't feel bad about ignoring it.

[Tedronai]

Blatantly and explicitly ignoring the closest thing we have to a definitive rule and calling the result a 'rules interpretation' is, at best, insultingly disingenuous.

[Sanctaphrax]

The closest thing we have to a definitive rule is an implication derived from a legalistic reading of the game's terminology.

It might be the best we have, but it's still not much. I don't see why we should let it bind us.

Like I said before, I'm not sure whether ignoring it counts as a houserule or not. Either way, I think it's probably a good idea.