Author Topic: Sorry but, what are, "shifts?"  (Read 2936 times)

Offline Thugorp

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Sorry but, what are, "shifts?"
« on: May 18, 2012, 11:07:47 PM »
Hay all, I know that this is probably a stupid questoin, but what are shifts? I kind of thought that this would be explained in the skills section, but I am already to, "Guns," and I have not seen the explanation yet... which is annoying since many of the skills seem to mention them. so ... WHAT ARE THEY!?
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Offline Haru

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Re: Sorry but, what are, "shifts?"
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2012, 11:14:00 PM »
Shifts are "extra points" that you wouldn't have needed to succeed on a roll but got anyway. So let's say you have athletics 4 and want to jump over from roof to roof. Your GM tells you it's a difficulty of 5. You roll and get "-;+;+;+", a +2, which means your "effort" is 6. subtract the difficulty of 5 and you are left with one shift on your roll to jump.
The whole explanation is on page 192.
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Offline Thugorp

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Re: Sorry but, what are, "shifts?"
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2012, 11:22:21 PM »
Thank you, that is pretty much my big complaint about the guide books, they seem to do everything backwords, first skill then explaining shifts, first the charicter creation(which in this game is basically just assigning aspects and stunts to a back story) then explaining what aspects and stunts are! it just urks me. Other than that I love the system. :-)
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Offline Haru

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Re: Sorry but, what are, "shifts?"
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2012, 11:29:28 PM »
Yeah, you'll have to do a lot of jumping back and forth until you get used to it. If you have a similar problem again, the Glossary is a big help. It can be found on page 396.
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Offline Thugorp

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Re: Sorry but, what are, "shifts?"
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2012, 06:53:49 PM »
thankyou.
I am the Gnome in your garden.
The one that keeps your pet from running away.
The one that keeps growing you all those delicious nutritious Dandelions.
The one who...
WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU DON'T LIKE DANDELIONS!?!

Offline Rougarou

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Re: Sorry but, what are, "shifts?"
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2012, 07:40:49 AM »
Shifts are "extra points" that you wouldn't have needed to succeed on a roll but got anyway. So let's say you have athletics 4 and want to jump over from roof to roof. Your GM tells you it's a difficulty of 5. You roll and get "-;+;+;+", a +2, which means your "effort" is 6. subtract the difficulty of 5 and you are left with one shift on your roll to jump.
The whole explanation is on page 192.

Actually, you've just described "spin" not "shifts".

"Shifts" are the game's default unit of measurement for one unit of effect, whether that be to measure the difficulty of an action about to be attempted or the character's "effort" to overcome that difficulty.

To reuse the above example:
The character wants to jump across a gap between two buildings. The GM tells the player that the difficulty of such a jump would be "Superb" (in other words, it will require 5 "shifts"). This means that the character must generate an effort of 5 "shifts" in order to successfully jump across the gap. The character has an Athletics skill of "Great" (4) and rolls four FUDGE dice coming up with a +2 which means the character generates an effort of 6 "shifts", surpassing the required effort of 5 "shifts" by one. This leftover shift is called "spin" and may be used in a handful of ways (subject to GM approval), including moving another zone after jumping to the next roof.

Hope this helps clear things up for you.
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Offline Tedronai

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Re: Sorry but, what are, "shifts?"
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2012, 08:47:45 AM »
Not quite, Rougarou.
Quote from: YS192
The result of the roll is called the effort. Each
point of effort over the difficulty is a shift.

(bolding original, italics added)
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Offline Rougarou

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Re: Sorry but, what are, "shifts?"
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2012, 09:21:03 AM »
Not quite, Rougarou.

My mistake. However, on page 214 it talks about efforts exceeding the difficulty by one or more being termed "overflow" or "spin". Also, in spellcasting, shifts are used as the term for how much power you wish to place into an evocation (See YS pg. 251). In general, as I stated, shifts are used as a generic term for a unit of effect.
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Offline Tedronai

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Re: Sorry but, what are, "shifts?"
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2012, 09:40:14 AM »
That's likely because Shifts are the unit of measurement for magnitude of Effect, which,  in spellcasting when measuring Power or Complexity, is often derived directly, as if the difficulty being subtracted was 0.
That's my interpretation, at least.

'Shifts' are also used as a negative measure of the magnitude by which a spellcasting control roll failed to determine the severity of backlash or as a guide for the GM in determining fallout. (ie, degree of failure; a mirror of its usual role, degree of success)


Further reference to Shifts as a measure of success beyond a minimum difficulty can be found on YS 400, and on the quick reference pages under the headings 'Rolling', 'Degree of Success', and 'Stress and Consequences'.
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Offline Orladdin

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Re: Sorry but, what are, "shifts?"
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2012, 01:36:24 PM »
Any value can be rated in Shifts.  Shifts are merely the unit of measurement.  You can have Shifts of difficulty, shifts of effort, shifts of time, shifts of spell power, shifts of overflow and shifts of spin. 

A note on the last two:
Overflow is a term used specifically in Dresden to discuss shifts beyond those required to succeed that can be spent discretionally.  Spin is something else.

Spin is a special effect in some FATE games, (often added as an optional rule in an appendix or side bar) where defensive or, sometimes, maneuver rolls can "generate" a point of spin for every 3 shifts of overflow success that the player does not spend for effect.  This spin can then be applied as a +1 bonus or a -1 penalty (as the player decides) on the very next roll in combat.

For example, let us imagine a scenario where your character, a simple shopkeeper, swung a broom handle at my character, a veteran soldier.  You rolled a 1 total on your weapons roll.  My defensive dice turn up entirely uninteresting, but still end up giving me a total of 5 on my defense.  I defended against your attack and still had three Shifts left over, unused.  I could then attack you on the following action, applying my spin as a +1 to my attack.  Or, if the police officer intent on stopping your violence went next, instead, I could apply my +1 from spin to his attack roll against you.

Spin basically gives someone a minor control over combat for doing exceptionally well on a non-attack action.

Just an FYI.

« Last Edit: May 23, 2012, 02:22:31 PM by Orladdin »
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Offline Tedronai

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Re: Sorry but, what are, "shifts?"
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2012, 10:04:58 PM »
Any value can be rated in Shifts.  Shifts are merely the unit of measurement.  You can have Shifts of difficulty, shifts of effort, shifts of time, shifts of spell power, shifts of overflow and shifts of spin. 

That's how the term is often used, particularly on these boards, but it's not actually what it means.  If you need confirmation of this, I direct you to the Glossary of Game Terms, page 400 of Your Story, in the bottom right-hand corner, which directs to page 192, the relevant section of which I quote above.
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Offline UmbraLux

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Re: Sorry but, what are, "shifts?"
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2012, 10:51:17 PM »
I wouldn't get too hung up on the definition of shifts.  It's one of the terms used inconsistently throughout the text.  It's consistently a measure of power but how you come to that differs in each section.

In general, it's a measure of an action's strength.  For skills that's usually total offense minus total defense.  (YS192)  For evocation it's the power of the spell.  (YS250)  For thaumaturgy it's the complexity of the spell and / or the amount of power being channeled each exchange.  (YS262)
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Offline Jimmy

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Re: Sorry but, what are, "shifts?"
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2012, 06:53:18 AM »
Also describes the differences and definitions of shifts, effort and effect on p17 under Difficulty.
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