Construct AI

[sinker]

So NPC allies can't be interesting ?, well I disagree but your entitled to your opinion.

I never said that NPC allies can't be interesting, I said that NPC goons are by definition uninteresting.

But that's not really the point. The point I'm trying to make is that using goons on the PC side of a standard physical conflict is boring. Ever try it? Usually it just means that there's a period of time where the GM is playing against himself and the players sit there. Even if you allow player control, it still has a tendency to bog down. It's not usually fun.

I can tell I'm on the less popular end of this argument though. If everyone else loves doing that, then there's no reason for me to dissuade them.

[Orladdin]

So NPC allies can't be interesting ?...

No, but they should not out-shine PCs.  Ever.

[GryMor]

No, but they should not out-shine PCs.  Ever.

Of course they should, it cheapens the PCs surpassing them if there wasn't the scene or two when the NPCs shined brighter or overshadowed them.

That said, in the cases we are talking about, it's not NPCs out shining PCs, it's the tools wielded by one PC supporting another PC.

[devonapple]

Of course they should, it cheapens the PCs surpassing them if there wasn't the scene or two when the NPCs shined brighter or overshadowed them.

I believe the spirit of Orladdin's dissent pertains to "GM's pet" NPCs who are ostensibly "adventuring companions" (or simply allies) but consistently outshine the players, handle all of the heavy lifting for them in an adventure, and devalue the agency of the PCs. It is a fine rhetorical point to make in the greater context of NPC-hiring to fill unoccupied niches in a particular group/mission/etc.

Hiring a merc to cover your back during a duel? Okay.
Hiring a merc to be your long-term bodyguard? Alright, sure. Ideally there should be a PC rising to fill a similar niche, but if nobody wants to, nobody wants to.
Hiring a merc to be your long-term bodyguard and making him do everything that needs doing? That's when it seems silly.

[sinker]

Hiring a merc to be your long-term bodyguard and making him do everything that needs doing? That's when it seems silly.

This is exactly the point I was trying to make.

[devonapple]

This is exactly the point I was trying to make.

Yes, but it appeared as if you applied that point unilaterally to a discussion about having ectoplasmic construct bodyguards tied to a ward, which differs from the "Superstar NPC Ally" in two key ways:
1) the constructs and the AI overseeing them aren't in a position to do everything the player can do, only better - they are focused on fighting intruders, and presumably, the player is better at magic
2) the constructs and the AI aren't in a position to replace the player - they are geographically tied to one spot, watching the player's stuff

And even if the OP wants more out of their AI, having the ectoplasmic equivalent of a supercomputer running one's house has plenty of narrative conflict potential (can the AI be mind-controlled and turned against the maker? let's find out!), and numerous fictional analogues (though SYnergy, the AI from "Jem" is the only one coming to mind at the moment).

[Silverblaze]

No, but they should not out-shine PCs.  Ever.

I never said that NPC allies can't be interesting, I said that NPC goons are by definition uninteresting.

But that's not really the point. The point I'm trying to make is that using goons on the PC side of a standard physical conflict is boring. Ever try it? Usually it just means that there's a period of time where the GM is playing against himself and the players sit there. Even if you allow player control, it still has a tendency to bog down. It's not usually fun.

I can tell I'm on the less popular end of this argument though. If everyone else loves doing that, then there's no reason for me to dissuade them.

I totally agree with both statements.  I like to roleplay with interesting meaningful NPC's.  I also prefer to not seem like wallpaper compared to them.  Might be hard to find the happy medium for some, but it works well.