Ambush out of a veil. Do you allow it? How do you do it?

[sinker]

Might, then, want to have Alertness (or Lore) restrict the attack roll

I'd actually be fine with having alertness modify the roll (I.E. a higher alertness would add 1 and a lower alertness would subtract). Thanks for reminding me about combining skills though, I had forgotten all about that.

[devonapple]

Shoot.  That must have been a house rule, that you have to spend a shift for each sense the Veil operates against, because I can't find it.

Perhaps one could approach the other way, and provide a discount of X shifts (say, 1-3 shifts) for there to be a sense which a given veil doesn't cover:
Uncommon: 1-shift discount (a particular supernatural sense)
Common: 2-shift discount (hearing or sight)
Very Common: 3-shift discount: veil only protects against a particular sense

Thoughts?

[Samael]

By the Rules As Written, you lose some efficiency when you stack stunts.  If you have two stunts that give +2 that apply, the final result is +3

This is NOT stacking stunts, this is a Power (Cloak of Shadows), a Stunt for +2 to Ambushes, and a secondary Stunt towards Maneuvers which makes it all but impossible to fail to create a relevant taggable aspect. This is perfectly legal to RAW, simply being excellent synergy between them.

[Tedronai]

@devonapple
I like the idea in theory, though I think 'a particular supernatural sense' is likely TOO uncommon to be worth a discount, rather like having a veil that doesn't obscure taste: how often is that going to matter?

Lore's generic Mystic Perception trapping might be more fitting for a +1 (it won't tell them where you are, or what you are, or what you're up to, but it'll tell them that you're nearby, and you're not mundane)

[Quasispike]

*Delurking*

@Devonapple, not too sure I like that idea of changing shifts (either way) to cover more or fewer senses, really such a thing seems to fly in the face of RAW and the A Block is A Block is a Block sidebar. I think declarations and assessments are the way to go with weaknesses in veils. Which brings me back to this question...

 YS 252 A Block is a block is a block, talks about using assessments and declarations to define weak points in an opponents defense. Should the NPCs who are about to get ambushed be allowed to roll make declarations to help them perceive the veil?

How PCs make assessments and declarations is really well spelled out, but the book says nothing about a GM's ability to do so. Consider the following quick scenario. The PCs are up against a wizard who casts a veil to escape combat. A few scene's later they run across the same wizard, mid combat he's veiled and one of the PC's makes an assessment and tacks on the It doesn't cover your BO aspect to the veil spell. Well within RAW and the spirit of the setting. But as the GM if I want to point out the weakness in a PCs spell how would I go about this, GM fiat is too heavy handed for my taste (and just plain a bad way to GM imnsho), but am I allowed to make assessments and declarations (or would they be compels upon the High Concept of the PC spell caster?) and if so what are some good guidelines for going about this?

*Lurk mode engaged*

[sinker]

NPC's can make assessments just as much as PC's can, that makes complete sense. Declarations are really sort of a player thing in how they work, however as the GM you can introduce scene aspects whenever you want. Now this doesn't allow you to effect the players in quite the same way since you can't effect their characters directly, however I would think you should be able to make it work.

As to how often you should do something like that, I would say that it really depends on the players and the table. You should know your players reasonably well, how often do you think they would take kindly to that kind of thing? Perhaps if you explain it as "turnabout is fairplay" response to declarations? I'm not sure, it's always going to depend on the people that you're with.

[zenten]

What do people do for trying to shoot/attack veiled foes?  Assuming the veil has extra exchanges in it and hasn't been peirced and, I guess, assuming that you don't adjudicate the veil dropping when someone in it attacks, how do you adjudicate shooting in a random direction because you saw an arrow come flying at you "from that direction".  Would you allow the person to attack "over there somewhere" and let the attack, if it succeeds, break the veil?  Or would that just be an awareness with, as Micheal Sandy said, a +4 because you saw the arrow coming from that direction?

I just let you attack them normally, if you're somehow aware of their existence.  I give someone who's veiled a free tag on an aspect of "Invisible" though.