Spell Damage

[JesterOC]

But lets please stop derailing this thread. I'd be happy to discuss some more elsewhere.

Agreed. So I will give my opinion to the OP.

Don't change the magic system. Use multiple opponents in multiple zones to prevent the one huge smackdown spell that can take out all the opponents. Spell casting takes mental stress, a wizard can't keep casting spells for long.

Also after a bit of exposure to a wizard a named NPC will start looking for magical protection.

JesterOC

[Papa Gruff]

Agreed. So I will give my opinion to the OP.

Don't change the magic system. Use multiple opponents in multiple zones to prevent the one huge smackdown spell that can take out all the opponents. Spell casting takes mental stress, a wizard can't keep casting spells for long.

Also after a bit of exposure to a wizard a named NPC will start looking for magical protection.

JesterOC

I concur with this, yet I can't say that I don't have problems scaling against my two submerged PC sometimes.

[eberg]

I think people are misconstruing my problem (which I might not have been clear enough about). I'm less concerned with the potential to kill lots of opponents in the same zone or even about damage (mostly), since I am not changing the Weapon ratings. Folks who can pull Power 5+ are still hitting hard. My problem is with the ability to hit unfailingly. Simply, defenses do not scale to how "to hit" rolls scale for wizards, if you include control bonuses. Even magical defenses, like the +5 block your average wizard will throw up during a fight are practically useless against someone with some refinement and good foci who has a base +9 to hit you. Similarly, that individual is going to have any easy time hitting anything with less than Superb Athletics and Mythic Speed. I don't feel like this situation reflects the books at all, where magical shields are shown to be very effective and fast monsters are shown to be tough to target. Most wizards are going to have +4 or +5 Discipline to begin with, so they are already expert marksmen. Giving them at least a +2 bonus to hit on top of this makes them nigh-unstoppable, particularly since they are hitting with Weapon 4+ attacks.

I don't feel that addressing that "nerfs" wizards. They are still throwing around attacks with a Weapon rating that outstrips anything less than a tank or a demon with Claws and Mythic Strength and their magic gives them unparalleled flexibility. A monster's claws are good for one thing, a Wizard can do /ANYTHING/ given time and prep. I just don't think they need a "to hit" bonus and the attendant extra damage this gives them, ON TOP of these advantages.

And, as I said, my concern is less about my PCs power and more about their enemies. The PCs are losing a couple points of stress in damage and are missing a little bit more. One tough NPC in my current major plotline is going from a +8 to hit to a +4, meaning that the PCs shields and dodge rolls may actually save them from his Weapon:8 attacks (I calculated that, if they didn't get a shield up in time and rolled badly on their dodge, they could potentially take 20 shifts of damage from one of his attacks).

[devonapple]

One could perhaps do this:
The first any 3 or 4 shifts above the needed to hit roll = extra shifts of damage. I think we can all agree that there should be some damage benefit for rolling well.
After that, every 3-4 shifts (no rounding up or down) means the caster gets to tack a Fragile Aspect (3 shifts) or Sticky Aspect (4 shifts) on the target, with any leftover shifts are disregarded.

[AlexFallad]

I pretty much agree with the OP.  The Wizard's Control roll is functioning to both control the power and generate accuracy.  At a minimum, he seems to have a reasonable house rule that accuracy is generated only by the Discipline. 

The swing Wizards get to accuracy and therefore damage reminds me of WEG's Star Wars D6 system and their Lightsaber Combat mechanic.  Use of the power generated a Force bonus to hit and damage...I'll spare the gruesome details but Jedi Knights would hit and deal devastating damage far above their peers to ridiculous levels.  Some folks were okay with it, some folks had a problem with a blaster rifle doing 5D6 damage and a Jedi doing 13D6 with a lightsaber...

[sinker]

If your issue is with damage I'd say that devonapple has a pretty elegant solution (I.E. cap it). If your issue is with wizards being expert marksmen I'd say that's a pretty accurate representation of the books. It seems to me that wizards hit most of the time, unless we're dealing with supernatural baddies with extra speed or shielding (in which case maybe the issue is with supernatural speed or shielding and not the wizard).

[BumblingBear]

If your issue is with damage I'd say that devonapple has a pretty elegant solution (I.E. cap it). If your issue is with wizards being expert marksmen I'd say that's a pretty accurate representation of the books. It seems to me that wizards hit most of the time, unless we're dealing with supernatural baddies with extra speed or shielding (in which case maybe the issue is with supernatural speed or shielding and not the wizard).

If people are having problems with wizard damage, I agree that this is the best solution.

That said, I don't think the game is broken.  Wizards /CAN/ lay the smack down.  By Changes,

(click to show/hide)

Harry can almost effortlessly cut through steel support beams with his rote Fuego spell.

I think that it is realistic that wizards are to be feared.  That said, it also goes with the flavor of the books that smart fighters don't fight fair and use sneaky tactics.

I'd argue that a sneaky character who is good with guns is as dangerous as a nasty evocator.

[Sanctaphrax]

If you want wizards to be powerful but innacurate, you could try having control bonuses increase control and damage instead of control and accuracy.

[bibliophile20]

And don't forget, the baddies can always "jiggle the elbow" a bit; it's completely workable for enemies to compel tags and aspects on the wizard's Discipline roll to reduce it.  The wizard will end up getting a bundle of fate points from the compels, but drop enough of them and the firecracker will fizzle.  And aspects like "The Building Was On Fire And It Wasn't My Fault" are begging for compels from the GM for creative misfires. 

[Drashna]

inhuman speed gives +1 to athletics to dodge, or +2 if moved (IIRC).  So if it's fast, its likely to have a 4-5 athletics anyhow.  That's 5 min, to 7.  Now suppose the baddie/target decides to invoke aspects? "It's dark here", and his high concept.  That's a 9 shift defense. Maybe 11.  I'm sorry, but I see this as balanced.  And that's also assuming that you have no stunts to boost it, and aren't taking a full defensive action (2 higher).