Author Topic: skill shuffle question  (Read 3056 times)

Offline spacetonium

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skill shuffle question
« on: October 06, 2010, 07:36:04 PM »

A friend of mine is joining our fledgling group, and is making a werewolf. the question we have is on skill shuffle. He claims it lets him rearrange his skills every time he changes into wolf form, i.e. that he adapts his skills to the current situation. the rest of us believe that he must make a second set of skills at character creation that is static for his wolf form. this makes more sense to me, but the thing is, the wording never actually says this as far as i know.

thoughts?

Offline wyvern

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Re: skill shuffle question
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2010, 07:39:06 PM »
Take a look at the true shapeshifting power - the four refresh one at the end of the shapeshifting section - that's the one that would let you adapt your skills to the current situation.  The Beast Form skill shuffle only gives you one form.  (Though I could see something like spending a second refresh for another form or two; having an in-between power available that's more than beast form but less than true shapeshifting seems reasonable to me.)

Offline Janus Node

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Re: skill shuffle question
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2010, 07:53:59 PM »
I agree with wyvern;  Beast Form is a secondary skill layout that is static (unless they spend a minor milestone to alter like they would a primary skill layout), but True Shapeshifting is what allows a person to optimize skills for any given situation due to the concept of being a "multi-form" shapeshifter.

Offline spacetonium

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Re: skill shuffle question
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2010, 09:29:54 PM »
thanks guys! i appreciate it!

Offline deathwombat

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Re: skill shuffle question
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2010, 12:09:41 AM »
Not recommended for PCs to try and be variable shapeshifters either.
Bad typists untie!!!!

Offline mostlyawake

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Re: skill shuffle question
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2010, 01:38:59 AM »
Why do you say that true shape-shifters aren't good as PCs?  Not that I disagree, I just haven't heard this before.

Offline wyvern

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Re: skill shuffle question
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2010, 01:58:11 AM »
Honestly, the reason I'd suggest not making a character with true shapeshifting is just the level of annoyance in trying to keep track of your skill stack as you swap from form to form.  It's a decidedly non-trivial amount of book-keeping if you decide to invent a new form in the middle of a scene.

On the other hand, if you're in a play-by-post game, that's not so much of an issue.

Offline Janus Node

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Re: skill shuffle question
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2010, 05:00:51 AM »
Personally, if I had a player insist on having "True Shapeshifter", I would limit them to a few set forms equal to an appropriate skill for their concept (Deception seems good, but others could be justified).  This would be their "practiced" forms they could do quickly.  They could still do other shapeshifts if they want, but I would limit them to a certain number of skill shifts per turn to keep them from slowing down play.  But that's me.

Offline Becq

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Re: skill shuffle question
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2010, 02:39:37 AM »
As one additional note, consider that you can only shuffle skills "so long as any knowledge or social skills are not given a higher value by the change" (YS174 for Beast Change, and True Shapeshifting uses the same rules).

So even with True Shapeshifting, you don't have absolute freedom with your skills.  You need to define your base form, then you're allowed to let physical and perceptions skills to float up or sink while knowledge and social skills may only sink.

And as mentioned by others, I don't see any reason not to allow a character to take Beast Form twice, allowing two shapes with a skill tree each.  A good example would be the classic (Black Court?) vampire power granting the bat form and wolf form.  I could even see allowing such a character to take a poor man's version of modular powers, paying a single -1 refresh to have Wings [-1] in bat form and Claws [-1] in wolf form (since the choice is locked to the form, and is therefore not truly modular).  This would be a GM call, of course.

And regarding the last two posts, I think it would be fair to require the True Shapeshifting player to have an index card (or some other writen form) describing each form they know, complete with skill set.  They can only shift into a form they've written up in advance, in order to prevent delays of the sorts described.  They can make as many cards as they want, but need to let the GM look over them before use.  (No monkeys with Guns 5 -- unless the base form had it!)  I'd probably also require that they only have one version of each form (so no "tracking-spec" wolf, "fast movement-spec" wolf, "combat-spec" wolf, etc, though having a tracking bloodhound, fast movement cheetah, and combat wolf would be fine).

Offline deathwombat

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Re: skill shuffle question
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2010, 10:33:48 AM »
I either misread or misremembered something. Go for it knock yourself out!
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Offline Arcteryx

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Re: skill shuffle question
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2010, 02:37:58 PM »
I was drumming up a werewolf and wondered about the whole social skill thing not being allowed to increase - wouldn't it be fair to say that your intimidate skill as a werewolf could conceivably be better than your intimidate skill as Sally Human? I stuck to the rulebook for the one-shot/con-style game I'm running but its something that was bubbling in the back of my mind.

Offline WillH

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Re: skill shuffle question
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2010, 03:28:19 PM »
Intimidate is antisocial behavior so it's OK to increase it. ;) But, seriously I'd make an exception for intimidate.

Offline Becq

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Re: skill shuffle question
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2010, 06:18:12 PM »
Intimidate is antisocial behavior so it's OK to increase it. ;) But, seriously I'd make an exception for intimidate.
I think its generally acceptable to make exceptions for stuff that makes sense, so long as the players and the GM are in agreement.

And even if you opt not to make the exception, I could certainly see the werewolf leading off with a "Menacing Growl!" maneuver, then tagging that for the Intimidate.  There might even be a declaration ("This schmuck's pissing in his boots!") hidden in there...