A debate over crafting...

[Richard_Chilton]

Hi.  I'm looking for opinions.  Locally there's a bit of a debate over something and I'd like to see what others think.  It's over how thaumaturgists specialize.

Here's where the debate starts:
"Plenty of spellcasters focus their specializations by function—you have divinators, wardsmen, crafters, summoners, and the like." Pg. 284 of Your Story (pre-order PDF).

Then it goes to:
"Crafting Specializations
Crafting specializations for items and potions aren’t used for control or complexity; they usually affect frequency or strength without making you spend an extra slot to do it." Pg 280 of Your Story (pre-order PDF).

One side of the debate believes that the crafting specializations are from refinements.  The other side of the debate feels that if he selects crafting as his thaumaturgist specialty then he gets twice as many magic items per slot as normal - that is the benefit of crafting specializations for each item slot he has (or ever will have).

We've talked it around a bit, and now would love to hear other others think. And why they think that way.

Richard

[Ala Alba]

Short answer: It's refinements.


Normal thaumaturgy can use refinements to get bonuses to complexity or control, but with crafting you get bonuses to frequency, power, or focus. I'd go into a longer explanation, but it's late. I'll let someone else fill you in.

[luminos]

If his thaumaturgy specialization bonus is crafting frequency, then every enchanted item/potion has a base of two uses per session instead of one.  He does not get two items instead of one for each slot.  He can use his initial thaumaturgy bonus for this, or get the specialization bonuses from refinements, or even use focus items to boost the frequency and strength of his items.  But nothing will give him more item slots than he starts with except for buying more through refinement.

[Becq]

Where did the double slots idea come from?

Refinement can give you specializations in either Evocation or Thaumaturgy or item slots.
A specialization applied to Thaumaturgy can be one of these:
  +1 to their Lore for purposes of Complexity calculations for either one function or one theme
  +1 to their Discipline for purposes of Control rolls for either one function or one theme
  +1 to the strength of items and potions they craft
  +1 to the number of uses/session of items and potions they craft
  +1 to their Lore for purposes of determining the bonus limit for focus items they craft

So if a character has a Lore of 4 and they want to create a Dresden-style duster, they might spend one slot to get a 4-shift defense once per session.  A crafting frequency specialization would make this a 4-shift defense twice per session.  So in this example, you've gotten a two-for-one on this very weak item.

Alternatively, a character might spend four slots on the item, boosting it's stength by two with two of the slots, and its frequency by two with the final slot, resulting in a 6-shift defense three times per session.  A crafting frequency would bump this item to four times per session (not six).  In this particular case, a crafting strength spec would be better, allowing you to spend one slot on strength (plus the specialization bonus) and two slots on frequency (+4 uses) to get a 6-shift defense five times per day, for the same number of slots.

Used with potions, a crafting frequency gives you two uses per potion instead of one.  Note that this *sort of* doubles the value of the slots, but not really: you get to use a potion you dedicate a slot to crafting twice, rather than getting to make two different potions (ie, less flexibility).

[Richard_Chilton]

I think he looked at the 'double potion' bit and somehow assumed that it applied to all magic items.

So, if I'm reading the consensus (and the rules) correctly, you can take crafting as your thaumaturgy specialization - taking it as strength, frequency, or as a focus specialization - or you can take it as a refinement (again having the same choice).

Richard

[Ala Alba]

Correct, or you can do both.

(Possibly a needless reminder, but remember that taking Thaumaturgy allows you to use any type of ritual, not like Evocation that only allows a starting point of three elements.)

[mostlyawake]

It's also worth noting that there is no real reason to houserule crafting even stronger. It's already considered by many to be the most potent path for games until like, 12-14 refresh.

Here's a quick view of why:

Crafter, lore 5, (thaumaturgy, specialization item use).
 5 refinement (item power +3, item use +1 (to +2 total), wards complexity +1, wards control +1 (to keep skill columns right), 4 focus item slots)
for, -8 refresh

Now has 6 focus item slots, burns just 2 on an item to give +1 crafting power, +1 crafting use, turns the other 4 into 8 enchanted item slots.

Total crafted item bonuses: Item power +9, item uses 5 per slot, 8 slots.
If one of those is a shield bracelet (9 shift shield 5 times per session), one of those is armor (armor 4 5x per session), and 6 are potions, the character now has 6 spells that he can cast at whim, declaring whatever he wants as he needs it, that are 9 shifts of power. Sure, he's limited to that 6, but he can cast each 5 times, for a total of 30 fairly powerful spells that go off instantly, cost no stress to use, and can be strengthened by fate points.

Due to mental stress and no real way to extend a mental stress track, an evoker is going to get 4 spells off before he's out of mental stress.  They are going to be limited to his conviction in power unless he finds a buff for them, and his discipline to control.. which he can also up by refinement.  So honestly for the same refresh, if he has a high enough lore (to enable good bonuses from focus items), he can get around the same power and control (+9 or +10 total).  But he gets... 4 spells per scene, before he gets in trouble.

Crafting rocks.

However, item strength is limited to lore x2, so around 12 or 13 refresh (assuming you've upped the skill cap to +6), you will see them come even, and past that the evoker will pull more power simply because the thaumaturge's refinement can no longer add to item power.

Still, he gets a crap load of free spells, and it certainly needs no buff.