"Knocked on yer' butt!"

[blackheart]

OK, so we have either an air or spirit invocation that ends up being an attack with a concequence of "Knocked Prone" (at least 2 shifts?) or placing a manuver on a target "Knocked Prone" without a damage track (at least three shifts, right?)

Or to be really nasty, add in an extra shift to move the target a zone away (Sent Flying).

Kosher or not?

[Haru]

it would not work as an attack, because even if you make it a weapon:2 spell, it would only add to your discipline attack roll, so the maneuver would be the way to go for a spell like this.

The extra shift for moving one zone however is legit.

[snowbank]

the PRONE position is on your STOMACH

SUPINE (think SPINE) is on your back/butt

[Richard_Chilton]

I don't think the consequence option will work - at least not for Evocation.  Evocation is basically an attack and the decisions about consequences is up to the defender.  That is the defender decides if he wants a consequence and if so what it is.

For Evocation, I can see that as a take out - as in "I send him crashing to the floor, knocking the wind out him and taking him out of the fight".

Thaumaturgy allows you to put a specific consequence on someone... Assume an Endurance of fair, you would need:
6 to overcome the best Endurance roll that the target can make
3 to fill the target's stress track
2 for a mild consequence
For a total of 11
Or if you felt lucky and wanted to bet that he would roll 0 or less, it would only be 7.  Seven is more doable in combat than eleven.

But the more I think about, the less being knocked down sounds like a consequence.  Even a mild consequence has too long of a duration for "knocked down" to really apply, so it looks like a maneuver is the best way to go.

Richard

[Belial666]

the defender decides if he wants a consequence and if so what it is.

Not exactly. The defended decides what the consequence is but it must be one the attack would reasonably cause.

So, if you hit someone with fire magic, all his consequences would have something to do with burning. He couldn't take irrelevant consequences like "drowning" or "frostbite". Similarly, if you hit with a cold attack, he could not get "bleeding wound" or "extra crispy".

So, to knock someone on their ass with evocation - something Harry Dresden does a lot with both spells and his rings - just describe the attack as kinetic; a big blast of kinetic energy that blasts him away. Yes, he doesn't have to get "knocked on my ass" as a result if a consequence comes up but it is definitely a possibility.

[Richard_Chilton]

So, to knock someone on their ass with evocation - something Harry Dresden does a lot with both spells and his rings - just describe the attack as kinetic; a big blast of kinetic energy that blasts him away. Yes, he doesn't have to get "knocked on my ass" as a result if a consequence comes up but it is definitely a possibility.

Of course it is possible, but you can't force someone to take it.  If he wants to take "Bruise forearm", or "busted lip" or something else then he can - and he remains standing.

But I think this is a moot point.  A minor consequence lasts longer than the average person would spend on the ground, so is it really application? I see it working better as a non-lethal takeout.

Richard

[HobbitGuy1420]

you can apply "knocked on yer butt" as an *aspect,* via a maneuver.  Just not as a *Consequence.*

Which is as it should be; that sort of thing would only last until the other guy stood up (IE, made a counter-maneuver to remove the aspect), not for longer periods (represented by the Consequence healing rate). 

Think of it this way: a Maneuver can apply a consequence the other guy can remove with a moment of effort.  A Consequence is generally something that can't be taken care of so quickly.

[sjksprocket]

To me "knocked on yer' butt!" could also imply a little bit of daze or being winded to some degree on top of being knocked prone/supine, so it could be a consequence. Meaning that when it's healed the person has come to his senses enough to get up. otherwise maneuver it is.

[blackheart]

The more I've talked it over with my player's (and reading the comments here, thanks guys!) I feel the fragile manuver (Knocked Down) is best.
It will let some one tag the aspect for a bonus and can be negated by a countermove (I get up).

the PRONE position is on your STOMACH

SUPINE (think SPINE) is on your back/butt

You remind me of my eighth grade english teacher.
I still have nightmares about her. Thanks for the mental stress attack!



 


(yes, I'm just kidding around.)