Thaumaturgist Character Help

[Belial666]

I think you are miscalculating the required shifts for yout example;

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The Bloodline Curse killed thousands of individuals all over the world. Assuming that we use +2 complexity per extra zone instead of spreading the spell's effect between targets (which would require a lot more power) we are still looking at thousands upon thousands of shifts of power. Assuming that the Red Court had about 10.000 vampires and infected worldwide (roughly outnumbering wizards of the White Council 3 to 1 or so), we are looking at 20.000 shifts as an absolute minimum. Assuming an exchange is half a minute (see below), we are looking at a week of casting, minimum, by a weak inhuman caster, or 3 days by a strong inhuman caster.

Secondly, an exchange is not only a measure of time for physical combat; exchanges exist in non-physical activities just fine. Any type of conflicts use exchanges, from social to mental, to physical, to using your skills for a set task out of combat. Casting spells specifically uses exchanges, not scenes. Besides, there is no reason a thaumaturgy would take a dozen times longer to cast out of combet than inside combat and we have seen Harry cast 10-shift thaumaturgies (with his discipline of 3) in short enough time that a running villain doesn't lose him and a demon breaking through his doors doesn't have enough time to reach him. And even 25-30 shift spells when cast by a two-bit sorceress (i.e. entropy curse in Blood Rites) only take about 5 minutes.


Third, we have seen single wizards cast nuke-equivalent spells in a couple of hours. Prime example is Cowl's Darkhallow. Even if he has a +7 discipline and conviction with a +8 necromancy control and +4 necromancy power bonus (not unusual for the greatest necromancer of his time - especially given that Necromancy control can substitute for evocation control with Kemmlerian Necromancy) and thus can summon 11 shifts of power with absolute safety, by your counting the Darkhallow could not have been more than 150 shifts of power. That is enough to level two-three dozen buildings but not nearly enough to kill everyone within miles as a mere side effect or turn one into a minor god. By my count on the other hand, the Darkhallow could have well been 4500 shifts of power - about the right power level for a spell of its apparent magnitude (though the slaying of thousands of humans and eating of hundreds of spirits as the first spell level was completed would probably jump the ritual's power by a factor of ten upon completion)

[Richard_Chilton]

My take on the Dark Hallow attempt is that it had thousands (or hundreds of thousands, or more!) of aspects to tagp when cast.  The necromancers were casting spell after spell to take out electric power and make people more afraid - and each one of those "I'm afraid of the dark!" aspects could have been tagged to help cast the spell.

As for the prep work, there wasn't much needed.  Harry was amazed by how simple it was.  Yes, it's a spell that doesn't fit within the rules (huge power with no prep work) - call it a plot device as opposed to a normal spell.

A Dark Ascension.  Becoming a god on level with the other Powers (maybe up there with the Ladies, possibly with the Queens, almost definitely below the Mothers).  That should take, what? A thousand steps? A million? A billion? Yet the Dark Hallow could be cast on one night.  It's some sort of a cheat that doesn't fit with the rest of the spell casting system, which makes it so dangerous to everyone.

Richard

[Tbora]

We have WoJ that had Cowl been successful in the Dark Hallow he would have a fair shot at taking down Mab.Queen/Archangel/Old God power in otherwords.

[Belial666]

Archangels are an order of magnitude over the Old Gods and the Queens and some of the stronger dragons. They are roughly at the same level as the Mothers while the Old Gods were mostly Nephilim - the first generation scions of standard angels (I'm assuming Archangels had no scions that we know of).

Remember, Uriel, without being worshipped at all (and thus having no extra power to focus), could part the red sea, visit an entire country with darkness, hail, frogs, disease or locusts and other similar acts that are very nearly beyond the greatest rituals and well beyond any conventional weaponry.

[Tbora]

I am going by the books not Our World, I don't really consider the RPG Canon proper.In the books Queen/Archangel/Old Gods are all in the same weight class.

[Becq]

For what it's worth, OW28 has this handy guidelines as to rough power levels:

* The Almighty (AKA the Creator, Michael’s Boss)
* The Faerie Mothers, the Archangels
* The Fallen, Old Gods, Old Ones
* The Faerie Queens, the Erlking, dragons, the Archive
* Outsiders, regular Angels, the Faerie Ladies
* Ancient demons, Knights of the Faerie Courts, Denarians, Knights of the Cross

It goes on to point out that these are not absolutes, and are often situational or based on on-the-job experience.

[Tbora]

Which is what I stated I don't consider canon.