Arcane Sanctum Rule Suggestion

[eberg]

I am considering allowing the rating of an Arcane Sanctum to count as shifts towards fulfilling the Complexity of Thaumaturgy rituals cast within it. It represents the accumulated tools and components, after all, so it is immediately accessible without extra declarations. Does anyone see this as terribly unbalanced?

[babel2uk]

It represents the accumulated tools and components, after all, so it is immediately accessible without extra declarations.

I'd say yes that's unbalanced.

The idea of having the relevant tools and components is already taken into account in the Lore aspect of Thaumaturgy (if the complexity is less than or equal to your Lore you have all the components etc necessary to perform the spell).

You could maybe have Arcane Sanctum as an invokeable aspect to represent an extra supply of components etc at the Preparation stage, which is more in keeping with the rules as written.

[eberg]

I'd say yes that's unbalanced.

Why? I mean, from a system standpoint. Most folks are going to have it so low as to not mean anything without a lot of extra effort. The filthy rich who have spent stunts on it may have it high enough to provide an extra five shifts to a ritual, but I don't find that overpowering given how quickly the complexity of rituals goes up. It barely puts a dent in an instant death ritual or a good set of wards. What it does accomplish is make a well-stocked Arcane Sanctum mean something by whiddling down the time for ritual prep (which is always a win, in terms of game flow).

The idea of having the relevant tools and components is already taken into account in the Lore aspect of Thaumaturgy (if the complexity is less than or equal to your Lore you have all the components etc necessary to perform the spell).

Not really. In the rules as written, I can cast thaumaturgy rituals of complexity of my Lore or less in the field, basically with what I have in my pockets. Having this same limitation when you are in your Arcane Sanctum seems to make the latter not really mean anything. It is the difference between a chalk circle on the pavement or the nice inlaid silver circle you saved up months for in your sanctum.

You could maybe have Arcane Sanctum as an invokeable aspect to represent an extra supply of components etc at the Preparation stage, which is more in keeping with the rules as written.

Declarations, though, cover preparations you need to make in addition to what you already have. It seems like Arcane Sanctum should be something apart from this, particularly since the rules as written don't really have it doing anything.

[babel2uk]

Okay, my response above was made on my understanding of the Thaumaturgy rules as they stand, and I stand by the fact that having the materials available and the knowledge to perform the ritual is already covered in the Lore part of the spell. Remember you're telling the story of the spell in any case, so it may be that you grabbed some things on a hunch, or took a quick trip back to your workshop to grab supplies. You could use your Resources to declare you've got specific supplies within your Sanctum to allow a tag on it, which gives you the free +2 in any case for having the Sanctum. It's just a matter of how you interpret the thaumaturgy rules. I just don't think it should be an automatic unquestioned bonus.

However, having re-read several times the section that covers Arcane Sanctum in Resources, I think the whole thing could do with some clarification from the writers.

As I read it the standard of your Sanctum basically limits the complexity of any Thaumaturgy cast within it to your Resources -2 steps unless you specifically try and improve it during the game. This seems a little harsh because if you've not specifically put skill points into buying Resources at more than Mediocre, then at the start of play the most simple Thaumaturgy is basically beyond your ability to perform within your own sanctum. In some ways you'd be better just doing the ritual on the street because at least that just defaults to Mediocre rather than the Terrible rating your Arcane Sanctum would have.

Or have I got the wrong end of the stick on how the sanctum actually works - does that limitation only apply to researching ritual theories?

I'm not against there being some limitation based on the standard of the Sanctum - obviously a fully kitted out workshop with fitted silver circle is going to be better than a damp shed with a chalk circle. But I'm not entirely sure what the limitation should be? Any suggestions?

[JosephKell]

No, you got the right of it Babel.

The sanctum helps make declarations.  The better your sanctum, the easier it is to make varying declarations.

For example, if you want to make a ritual research based declaration from Lore (to "double dip" from Lore for complexity) you must have an Arcane Sanctum of value equal to or greater than the difficulty for the declaration.  So if you have a Great sanctum and it is a Good difficulty, you can roll your Lore (which may be Superb) to try for the declaration.

Specific passage:

As described in Scholarship (see page 142), the quality of a workplace determines the highest possible difficulty of a “question” or project that you can pursue there.

In this case the "question" is your declaration.

You can assume to have a workspace equal to Resources - 2.  So perhaps a Thaumaturgist (in Submerged) would benefit from having a Superb Resources in order to have a "free" Good quality Arcane Library and a "free" Good quality Arcane Sanctum (two declarations where you roll Lore).  Even if it meant lowering Lore by 1 (at submerged you can have 2 superb, 2 great, and 2 good skills, so you could go Superb Lore, Resources; Great Conviction, Discipline).

A straight up Resources declaration could be purchasing some component.  You could also use Contacts to take that component and have it blessed or imbued by "this guy you know."

[eberg]

For example, if you want to make a ritual research based declaration from Lore (to "double dip" from Lore for complexity) you must have an Arcane Sanctum of value equal to or greater than the difficulty for the declaration.  So if you have a Great sanctum and it is a Good difficulty, you can roll your Lore (which may be Superb) to try for the declaration.

Research, though, seems more like an Arcane Library roll.

Specific passage:In this case the "question" is your declaration.

You can assume to have a workspace equal to Resources - 2.  So perhaps a Thaumaturgist (in Submerged) would benefit from having a Superb Resources in order to have a "free" Good quality Arcane Library and a "free" Good quality Arcane Sanctum (two declarations where you roll Lore).  Even if it meant lowering Lore by 1 (at submerged you can have 2 superb, 2 great, and 2 good skills, so you could go Superb Lore, Resources; Great Conviction, Discipline).

A straight up Resources declaration could be purchasing some component.  You could also use Contacts to take that component and have it blessed or imbued by "this guy you know."

That's just it, making it merely a prerequisite for a specific sort of declaration doesn't really make it very valuable. Particularly since declarations, unless you come up with really boring stuff, and Mediocre difficulty by default.

Honestly, the one thing I'm really missing from the DFRPG books is a section in "Adjudicating the Rules" for spellcasting. It is sort of conspicuous in its absence. Also, taking a second look at the example of using Thaumaturgy, it skips the preparation phase utterly and jumps straight to the actual casting. Thus, there are no examples and little guidance on using Thaumaturgy in the game.