Chucking Things About

[DFJunkie]

I've been looking through the books, and I don't think there are any rules for simply throwing/blasting/blowing/otherwise moving enemies from one zone to another.  It seems like a relatively obvious use of magic, and one that Harry has employed several times,.  Are there rules for this sort of evocation that I'm missing?  I know SotC has rules governing throwing people around with Might, and you can move a grappled opponent up to one zone (more with Inhuman+ Strength) but I don't see any discussion for, say, blowing an opponent who outweighs the Blue Beetle through a wall, across a city street, and through another wall.

In a somewhat related question, would dropping a car on your opponent's head simply be a sufficiently powerful (probably Weapon:5 or more, like being hit by a car) application of a pure force attack like Forzare?  I'm leaning yes on this one.

[Wordmaker]

I'd call it a maneuver or block, for ease of classification. Say you used a Power 5 Spirit Evocation to move someone a few feet away and get them off a friend, or out of your way, that could be resisted by the target's Might (or their own Evocation if they counterspell...).

And then perhaps you could add to the difficulty for moving the target a whole zone away. So moving someone to an adjacent zone could be +1 difficulty, moving them 2 zones could be +2, etc.

[Rel Fexive]

On p321 of YS there are rules about lifting thing and what it takes to throw things around, but mostly a throw (whether it be from grappling or a thrown weapon like a knife) can only move things up to one zone away, as you've said.  So if you apply enough shifts of power to overcome their resistance (Probably Might or the level of Might necessary to lift something, so 8 shifts for a small car) you can 'throw' them up to one zone away, easy.  Maybe extra shifts of power, or spin on the control roll, can throw them further?

I think the general opinion on the car thing is that yes, the actual car is just the narrative version of Weapon:Whatever.

[Wordmaker]

Yeah, definitely. I'd actually forgotten the rules on lifting and throwing, but absolutely if your spell is "levitate car and throw" then it should just be a description of a base attack evocation.

[Crion]

For moving foes around, I think I'd look to the rules for Grappling (YS211), as you are technically grabbing a foe and "dragging" them to another zone. I think you might need to modify it a bit (I personally would just add a few shifts instead of tagging aspects to cause the grapple), but the basic concept stands rather well. If you are looking at throwing people into walls and whatnot, I'd say look into the note on "Falling" on YS319.

As for your idea with the car: I can see it acting as it's own weapon instead of the damage of the spell, or just as the damage of the spell as a bit of flavor (see note on Falling).
I'm not so sure if I'd have that as a bonus to the damage to the spell, though. If you are inspired by that moment in Dead Beat, remember that the spell used in this case was just to flip the car. I don't think there was extra momentum beyond that, which makes me think it was the car doing damage and not the spell (fun way to bypass a block dedicated to just magic, though).

Just thinking out loud. Feel free to agree or disagree as you see fit.

[crusher_bob]

I'd say that using the car like that was tagging a scene aspect.  Just like the Grasping Branches spell (YS 294).

[Crion]

I'd say that using the car like that was tagging a scene aspect.  Just like the Grasping Branches spell (YS 294).

Good call. Completely forgot about that, actually. . .

[DFJunkie]

Yeah, the car is just tagging an aspect, I agree.

The reason I don't like the grappling option is because 1) it's a multi-round affair, and 2) the range is really limited.

When Harry

(click to show/hide)

blasts the Loup-Garou through the wall of the police station in Fool moon and knocks Magog into the next zip code in Small Favors

it happened instantly, at least in terms of exchanges, he obviously wasn't "setting up" a magical grapple on one round, maintaining it through his opponent's action, and then activating the push the next round.

In both examples above, the subject moved through at least one zone if not more.  The first moved through a wall, onto a street, through another wall, and into the building across the street.  Assuming the walls are only a one point barrier and the street is a single zone across, that's 4 zones.  the second example is a little less clear, but it seems to take his target at least a few exchanges to make it back, so I'd say it's clearly more than 1 zone.

Moving things is more about mass than might.  Sure, a black court vampire might have inhuman or even supernatural might, but they're dessicated corpses, in all likelyhood they'll fly farther than a human despite the fact that they could rip that human limb from limb with little effort.  

I will probably use Control (Spirit or Air) vs. Athletics to dodge.  The number of zones travelled will depend on the shifts spent on power: 1 zone for 1 shift, 2 zones for 3 shifts, 3 zones for 6 shifts, and 4 zones at 10(!) shifts(someone better at math than me can put the progression into mathematical terms).  Damage would be incedental, if the victim passes through a zone barrier it suffers stress equal to the value of the barrier, and I would never have someone suffer falling damage, even if I need to "cheat" to make sure they land somewhere soft.

[Wordmaker]

I can't believe I didn't think of the car as being an Aspect tag....