Maneuvers and persistence

[Tush Hog]

I wanted to get some clarification on maneuvers and how what you must do to extend their duration.

It's mentioned that if you get an extra shift on the maneuver difficulty than you make the aspect sticky and it can last the entire scene. But the example evocation maneuver has Evan Montrose spending 3 extra shifts to get 3 extra exchanges on his air spell. Is there a rule of thumb to know when was extra shift will do you for the scene and when you need to pay for each exchange?

[crusher_bob]

The way I'm currently doing evocation based maneuvers is that extra shifts allocated to duration define a number of exchanges where the target is not allowed to attempt a (counter) maneuver to remove the aspect that the (first) maneuver placed on them.

I chose to do it this way because non-spell based maneuvers don't have to have any shifts assigned to duration (expect for the first shift to make them sticky) still last for the whole scene. 

So if I use a mundane maneuver to give you sand in the eyes you could always take an action yourself to clear the aspect.  If I use a maneuver to place magical glop over your eyes and spend 3 shifts for duration, you can't even attempt to remove the aspect until the duration is up, and then you can spend an action to remove the aspect normally, just like you could vs the sand.

[JustinS]

It might make sense to have it be turns when you need to roll against the power of the spell, and after that, you roll against the usual mediocre...

[Deadmanwalking]

I'm with crusher_bob on this one. That's how I do it as well.

[Tush Hog]

I like that. Would you allow a counter spell in a situation like that as the only means to remove?

Also, along the same lines (maneuvers), what about "buying zones" for maneuvers? When, if ever, would you require the caster to buy a zone for a maneuver? Maneuvers normally put an aspect on a scene but how much space would you rule that includes? When Harry froze the lake would that be a basic maneuver in your mind or would you have the character buy zones too?