Dresden Files - M&M Style

[iago]

Well...I like 4E, but its lack of out of combat stuff makes it hard for a drama focused game to run smoothly.

Its out of combat stuff is less detailed and crunchy, but given the nature of skill challenges, rituals, and other components of noncombat play clearly present in the system, I'd hardly say there's a "lack".

[TheMouse]

Its out of combat stuff is less detailed and crunchy, but given the nature of skill challenges, rituals, and other components of noncombat play clearly present in the system, I'd hardly say there's a "lack".

I haven't done more than skim the rules, but my impression was that there was a huge focus on the tactical combat challenge with enough rules for other stuff to get by. And this is great for the game groups who are fine with making X checks before you fail Y, or who are fine with saying, "If you can role play it, you can do it," but it seemed a little light on support for someone who is interested in having robust mechanics for social conflict or the like.

None of which is a dig at 4th ed. It looks to me like WotC has taken D&D in an interesting direction. At the very least, starting wizard types are even farther away from the single Magic Missile with legs they were for some decades.

It's not my cup of tea, but that doesn't make it crap.

[Aluman]

Its out of combat stuff is less detailed and crunchy, but given the nature of skill challenges, rituals, and other components of noncombat play clearly present in the system, I'd hardly say there's a "lack".

I call it a lack, skill challenges are all but worthless, and rituals is hardly a plethora of options.

though as I think about it, I think it could be done n/o WoD as well (My personal preference is old, but it could be done regardless).

[Aluman]

I haven't done more than skim the rules, but my impression was that there was a huge focus on the tactical combat challenge with enough rules for other stuff to get by. And this is great for the game groups who are fine with making X checks before you fail Y, or who are fine with saying, "If you can role play it, you can do it," but it seemed a little light on support for someone who is interested in having robust mechanics for social conflict or the like.

That there is the issue.  For Dresden which has only a handful of minor fights before the big one (usually), an all but pure tactical RPG is not the way to go.  I am not saying it couldn't be done, but it would require an awfully big hammer to get it to fit, and is generally not worth the effort when a variety of systems already exists that can handle it without rounding the edges of Dresden's square peg (Or squaring the edges of its round peg either way).

None of which is a dig at 4th ed. It looks to me like WotC has taken D&D in an interesting direction. At the very least, starting wizard types are even farther away from the single Magic Missile with legs they were for some decades.

It's not my cup of tea, but that doesn't make it crap.

I enjoy 4th Ed, but when I play it its not for regular RP, its more for chasing things down and beating them up and taking their lunch money.

[TheMouse]

I wasn't suggesting that 4th ed would be the best choice, just that the power structure would work well. Harry starts with a blast of fire, a blast of force, and a shield that he uses as his baseline. Then he's got a couple of things he only does occasionally (like explode a house full of vampires).

I'd much rather play with FATE, though.

[Aluman]

Ehhh, I think you have to beat a lot of the others things over the head to make them work in the AW/E/D setup.  After all, while everyone would want to be a wizard, you need to be able to play a lot of things that just don't jive well that way.

[seekmore]

Maybe I read it wrong, but I was under the impression that Micheal's mail was slightly holy as well.

It burned Kelly, the Red Court Vampire, when she touched it in Blood Rites.

If not, then Michael himself was holy.

And he appears to have some kind of Paladin-like smiting power as well, or am I just crazy?

[TheMouse]

I'm not saying that 4th ed would be a good fit for the Dresdenverse so much as I'm saying that Harry falls into the rough pattern of how 4th ed works wizard types. Trying to cram, say, the Alphas into that pattern would be really contrived and wouldn't work very well at all.

As to the holiness of Michael and his armour, it's my impression that it's Michael himself that is holy. Faith of any sort seems to have power in the Dresdenverse, and Michael's faith is a monolithic and impressive thing. Harry has faith enough in his magic as to be able to change the world with a thought, but even that seems to pale before Michael's faith. While Harry can keep a Red Court vampire at bay by brandishing his pentacle, Michael empowers crosses on his person to be actively dangerous to them.

[Maria]

I hate to say it, but I think that 4th ed might be a tighter fit. I think the at will/ conflict/ per day thing might work well to model some of the conflicts in the books. Harry tends to rely on a lot of the same meat and potatoes spells. When shit hits the fan, he busts out a smaller variety of more powerful effects. When shit really, well, and truly hits the fan, he busts out some of the really powerful effects. It also has the advantage of giving everyone a couple of cool things each even at starting level.

I think the 4th edition is going to make it impossible for the DM. Its very difficult to make a boss monster effective using 4th rules. You need back up, or things like certain justice will mess you up. And to have a good Dresden verse story the monsters should work alone.
Id recoment people use 3rd.

[TheMouse]

I think the 4th edition is going to make it impossible for the DM. Its very difficult to make a boss monster effective using 4th rules. You need back up, or things like certain justice will mess you up. And to have a good Dresden verse story the monsters should work alone.
Id recoment people use 3rd.

Dresdenverse doesn't work very well with a Vancian magic system. It's just not a terribly good fit.

Besides which, I was thinking only about the powers system. I'm a system tweaker. I'm one of those people who likes to do things like start with Everway, then add Aspects and fate points, and finally decide that I should use FUDGE dice to run it. I forgot to mention that part, that it was just the structure of how powers work. Sometimes I forget that other people aren't necessarily system tweakers and don't think like one.

Of all things, I'd probably start with Wheel of Fate and glue a power system somewhat like 4th ed onto it. I like characters that fit onto one side of an index card.

[Aluman]

Just using AW/E/D I am not even sure would work well for Harry.  Really, 4th is just kinda advanced Vancian magic.  MAGE/Ars Magica would be an ok starting point for system tweaking, though.

[Weaverchilde]

I used Mage (with Possessed and Sorcerer rules) to recreate the Dresdenverse a while back. Essentially, Wizards were awakened with some path magic and everyone else was a just a path mage or a monster created via the spirit or possesed rules. I had to use Paradox in a slightly different way (essentially causing fatigue or story complications) to jive with the Dresden Pradigm, but the players seemed to like it. It lacked a certain feeling for combat though, but o/WoD was horrible with the concept of mooks. The Exalted/Scion rules would work well. Also the new system for hedge wizards would work well, I think.

Still, I am waiting for the FATE release

[Slife]

Dresdenverse doesn't work very well with a Vancian magic system. It's just not a terribly good fit.

I dunno, if you reflavored it as a heavily item-based wizard with different focuses it could work out fairly well.  Essentially with some sort of staff that acted as a magical shotgun.  You can only imbue a limited number of "shells" per day, and due to that nasty daily magical reboot you can't stockpile them.


Artificers are probably better models, though (what else is new?).  I suppose psionics could work as well, and binding has a bit of nice potential...

[TheMouse]

I dunno, if you reflavored it as a heavily item-based wizard with different focuses it could work out fairly well.  Essentially with some sort of staff that acted as a magical shotgun.  You can only imbue a limited number of "shells" per day, and due to that nasty daily magical reboot you can't stockpile them.

That doesn't fit my play style very well, and I don't think it would be a great fit for Dresden.

I'm actually really glad that they're going with FATE. Not only is it a game that I happen to like, but I think it will do a good job of modelling the books. You have a baseline at which you can perform; if nothing bad or strenuous happens you can sit there doing basic magic stuff all day. If you need some special umph, you have options which involve spending fate points, which means that you can only do big things a relatively fewer number of times. Finally, most of those spots where Harry is drained and can't do much if any magic can easily be done with a Compel on a Consequence.

Which is why I'm bloody impatient about finally getting the book.

[npd740]

Surprisingly, it handles the dresden-verse pretty darn well, actually.  I'll have to dig around my massive number of text files, and see if I can't find my Dresden-verse M&M templates.  I have templates for Wizard, White Court Vampire, Black Court Vampire, Red Court Vampire, and Changeling.  Mostly they're just a package deal you buy that gives you all the common abilities (like wizards all get soulgaze (which I'm still not quite happy with how I have it) and wizard's sight, for example).

It's not foolproof by any means, and I think the Dresden RPG is going to be a much better fit, but it does work pretty nicely.

Cheers,
Save vs DM

I am about to run a M&M Dresden game, any chance you could post those templates?   Please.