Author Topic: Carlos and Chandler's mentors  (Read 8354 times)

Offline g33k

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Re: Carlos and Chandler's mentors
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2024, 02:18:44 AM »
I  think that Uriel  out-Mab'ed Mab, here...
...
page 454 Ghost Story
Quote
"When you say what comes next, what do you mean exactly?"
  "The part involving words like forever, eternity, and judgement."
 "Oh," I said.  "What Comes Next."
  "Exactly."
...  However if Harry opts for what comes next he will be judged as we all will when we face Judgement.
 Here is what Uriel says; same page 454 Ghost Story
Quote
"So I can stay Between," I said quietly.  "Or I can go get on that train,"
"If you do," Uriel said, his eyes intent and serious, "then you accept the consequences for all that you have done while alive.  When judged, what you have done will be taken into account.  Your fate, ultimately, will be determined by your actions in life."
"You're saying that if I don't work for you, I'll just have to accept what comes?"
"I am saying that you cannot escape the consequences of your choices," he said.
... You will remember that Harry did choose what comes next, though since he really wasn't all dead, he never went on to what comes next.

Here's the thing: "What Comes Next" is entirely informed by -- quoting Uriel -- "the consequences for all that you have done while alive.  When judged, what you have done will be taken into account."

It wasn't Harry's time; he wasn't dead.  So his "what comes next" was just more opportunities to perform the actions upon which he would be judged, i.e. the very foundations of (and effectively thus part of)  Harry's "... part involving words like forever, eternity, and judgement."

Uriel told Harry the precise truth.
It just didn't mean what Harry thought it did.

Offline Mira

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Re: Carlos and Chandler's mentors
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2024, 12:01:36 PM »
I  think that Uriel  out-Mab'ed Mab, here......  However if Harry opts for what comes next he will be judged as we all will when we face Judgement.
 Here is what Uriel says; same page 454 Ghost Story... You will remember that Harry did choose what comes next, though since he really wasn't all dead, he never went on to what comes next.


Here's the thing: "What Comes Next" is entirely informed by -- quoting Uriel -- "the consequences for all that you have done while alive.  When judged, what you have done will be taken into account."

It wasn't Harry's time; he wasn't dead.  So his "what comes next" was just more opportunities to perform the actions upon which he would be judged, i.e. the very foundations of (and effectively thus part of)  Harry's "... part involving words like forever, eternity, and judgement."

Uriel told Harry the precise truth.
It just didn't mean what Harry thought it did.

Uriel did tell Harry the truth, whether Harry thought he was going to his Judgement or not..  Uriel told Harry he'd be judged on what he did in his life..  No warning in that, since it isn't Uriel's place to judge Harry one way or the other.  Now Harry can take stock in his own life and decide for himself if he needs to atone for some things, improve on others, or did the right thing.. All this has an effect on how he will live his future life, it all comes down to free will.. As a human being Harry has free will to do as he wishes, however when the Day comes, he will be judged for the bad as well as the good he did in his life.

Quote
My apologies, I was confused. I conflated the conversation Harry has with Jack Murphy with the conversation Harry has with Uriel. Captain Murphy says "with your record, son, you could just as easily find yourself on a south bound train."

But I do think Uriel does warn Harry. He says "you cannot escape the consequences of your choices." That's a pretty big warning to me.

I am not sure I agree though that Harry didn't face What Comes Next. That was what came next, for Harry. At least at that point. There'll be another Next at some point, unless Harry achieves immortality (and even then it's not assured).

Captain Murphy's statement was ambiguous in my opinion.. "you could just as easily find.."  In other words morality can get complicated, you can do the right thing morally but the consequences from that act could be very bad..  So do you go to Heaven for doing the right thing?  Or to hell because doing the right thing in that case had a lot of bad consequences?   

Uriel was merely speaking the truth, no one can escape the consequences of their choices.. There was no judgement in that, Harry has free will to do as he pleases, no warning that he needs to shape up because he is on a slippery slope, but he does have to keep in mind one day he will be judged.  Also "consequences" doesn't mean just bad ones, there are also good consequences as Uriel points out to Harry in "The Warrior," where some of Harry's seemingly minor choices made without a second thought had very good consequences for those involved..  All choices have consequences, good and bad upon which Harry will one day be judged and have to answer for.

Just a personal opinion but this reader will really be disappointed if somehow Harry becomes an immortal.. 
« Last Edit: April 25, 2024, 12:43:43 PM by Mira »