WAG: Most

[BrainFireBob]

WAG: That there is an island in Lake Michigan with a dark ley line- known.

That Merlin's magic supermax is an island.

But that the one is the other wasn't widely known.

If most beings only knew how to get there via Nevernever, it would explain how they could keep Kemmler from it.

Also, the Forest People are probably the reason the Red Court was confined to South America

[Bad Alias]

Also, the Forest People are probably the reason the Red Court was confined to South America

Interesting. I kind of doubt it because they're portrayed as very non-interventionist. Even so, the Red Court could have been worried about stepping on their toes.

[Arjan]

Interesting. I kind of doubt it because they're portrayed as very non-interventionist. Even so, the Red Court could have been worried about stepping on their toes.

The red court in the USA was probably mainly a big city thing where they ran crime organizations. The forest people are not interested in cities. I think their interactions were minimal.

[BrainFireBob]

The red court in the USA was probably mainly a big city thing where they ran crime organizations. The forest people are not interested in cities. I think their interactions were minimal.

In the last 200 years, sure. But the Maya go back much further than the Aztec- we're talking 0AD. Back then I think the Forest People were responsible for choking them off into South America only.

[forumghost]

I thought that it was mostly just them having a unspoken agreement with the White Court not to poach from each others herds myself.

The Whites were in North America, The Red's were in South America, The Jades were in China/Asia, The Blacks were probably Europe based...

Yeah, seems to me that they just didn't feel the need to go where there were competitors for their food sources.

[BrainFireBob]

The Blacks are new, relatively speaking. Starting around the time of the Conquista if Dracula was the first.

The White Court, which uses Etruscan as its official language, quite probably was the original "European" vampire. Maybe they were originally behind Roman patricians? Their move to eliminate the Black Court makes more sense if the Black Court was encroaching on their territory.

Their moving to North America is their expanding operations.

In fact, I have this complicated and longwinded theory that to understand the first half-dozen Dresden books, you have to view Chicago as a kind of supernatural Casablanca that both the Red Court and White Court were making power plays to take over; and Harry wandered in before Marcone "stole" it as a Freehold. Too valuable of a nexus.

[vultur]

In the last 200 years, sure. But the Maya go back much further than the Aztec- we're talking 0AD. Back then I think the Forest People were responsible for choking them off into South America only.

Maybe, but the Red Court might just not have been that interested. The population density in pre-Columbian times was way higher in Mesoamerica than in North America north of Mexico, really pretty amazingly high given that they were doing all their agriculture without draft animals or anything.

And the Red Court probably avoided the overly-sunny and thinly-populated desert of northern Mexico; they would try to expand southward rather than northward.

[Mira]

Maybe, but the Red Court might just not have been that interested. The population density in pre-Columbian times was way higher in Mesoamerica than in North America north of Mexico, really pretty amazingly high given that they were doing all their agriculture without draft animals or anything.

And the Red Court probably avoided the overly-sunny and thinly-populated desert of northern Mexico; they would try to expand southward rather than northward.

Yeah, but a ten year drought softened up the Maya for the Red Court to pick off.

[BrainFireBob]

Maybe, but the Red Court might just not have been that interested. The population density in pre-Columbian times was way higher in Mesoamerica than in North America north of Mexico, really pretty amazingly high given that they were doing all their agriculture without draft animals or anything.

And the Red Court probably avoided the overly-sunny and thinly-populated desert of northern Mexico; they would try to expand southward rather than northward.

Higher or not, territory is territory. There's the question about whether the supernaturals could reach to the New World via the Ways or not.

[morriswalters]

Apex predators aren't nomadic unless their prey is. So if the Reds didn't get here early because the Mayans didn't. And there are no Native American versions of the vampire, are there?  So every vampire here is an immigrant. On the other hand there were a lot of boats in the Med and a lot of travel in the prechristian eras.

Finding the island if you've been there is easy. Assuming you knew how to navigate and can see the stars. On the other hand how did Merlin find it to build the prison?

And in a related question is Kemmler a product of using the ley lines of the prison before he was able? In other words did the prison make Kemmler what he was.  And why is Harry getting so irrationally angry?

[Arjan]

Higher or not, territory is territory. There's the question about whether the supernaturals could reach to the New World via the Ways or not.

Gard traveled through the nevernever from Chicago to Norway but she knew about the destination.

[StrayDog]

WAGging from Odin's conversation prior Chitzen Itza, the red vamps should be the first. Defendants from long forgotten gods and all. The white vamps speaking Ancient Etruscan, probably a dead dialect, could be second oldest. That would make the black vamps the unwelcome spawn from possibly Kemmler's tinkering with one of the other vamps?