Asgard

[Yuillegan]

So, for those who are as yet unaware, Asgard is the mythological home of the Norse gods. Google it if you want more detail.

In the Dresden Files, we can be sure it does/did exist in the Never Never as evidenced by (Vadderung etc).

The -gard element in Asgard’s name is a reference to the ancient Germanic concept of the distinction between the innangard and utangard. That which is innangard (“inside the fence”) is orderly, law-abiding, and civilized, while that which is utangard (“beyond the fence”) is chaotic, anarchic, and wild. This applies both to the geographical plane and the human psyche; thoughts and actions can be innangard or utangard just as readily as spatial locations. Asgard is the ultimate model of the innangard, while Jotunheim, the “Homeland of the Giants,” is the epitome of the utangard.

Midgard (“Middle Enclosure”), the world of human civilization, is, as the name implies, somewhere in the middle – not quite as innangard as Asgard and not quite as utangard as Jotunheim. But Midgard is a space enclosed, on the geographical plane, by fences, and on the psychological plane by norms and laws. This makes it much closer – at least in theory – to Asgard than to Jotunheim. In other words, Asgard is the divine model upon which the pre-Christian Norse people patterned their world.

It seems to me that the Jotnar/Jotuns could well be connected for the Outsiders (in the Dresden Files). This could be further evidence that the Aesir once were the defenders/guardians of Reality. Perhaps the Outer Gates and Wall are much older than the Fae. I don't think the Jotuns are necessarily Outsiders themselves. But perhaps they are related/connected like the Fomor and the Outsiders are.

Curiously, Muspelheim is home of the World Destoryers. So I would say that there is a relation there, too.

[Bad Alias]

BG Ch. 1&2

(click to show/hide)

The kraken was a Norse monster, not a Greek one. I have no idea how related it was to anything else in the Norse mythos. The kraken in BG feels very much like an Outsider to me. That may support the Norse defenders of the Gates theory you'be laid out.

[Yuillegan]

Definitely, it surely is related to the Outsiders.

Although one Swedish author related it to the Leviathan of Job. So there's that.

There's not much information in terms of relation to other Nordic myths. Mostly just connected with varying sailors.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Yes Asgard is in the Never Never, just below Oz (watch out for Flying Monkey poo) as all things that man has ever believed in are there.

You missed out Isengard, which aside from where they are taking the hobbits, Isen means “under the ice” in Swedish, in English we would say “under the weather”
The Kraken by Alfred Lord Tennyson

Below the thunders of the upper deep;
Far, far beneath in the abysmal sea,
His ancient, dreamless, uninvaded sleep
The Kraken sleepeth: faintest sunlights flee
About his shadowy sides: above him swell
Huge sponges of millennial growth and height;
And far away into the sickly light,
From many a wondrous grot and secret cell
Unnumbered and enormous polypi
Winnow with giant arms the slumbering green.
There hath he lain for ages and will lie
Battening upon huge sea-worms in his sleep,
Until the latter fire shall heat the deep;
Then once by man and angels to be seen,
In roaring he shall rise and on the surface die.

I know Jim says he has been influenced by Clash of the Titan, but I suspect he is familiar with the above, Harry sticking a magnesium Flare in it’s head is the only way short of a volcanic eruption, that the third from last line can occur, and the second from last and last line, well we know what Murphy looks like under a Wizards sight, and Gard is a Valkyrie, and chooser of the slain, an angel to the AllFather.

I believe I am accusing Jim of Literature. I have had some suspicions, but I think he may have been misdirecting us with pop culture when in fact he has been riffing off Sir Walter Scott, W.B. Yeats and now Alfred Lord Tennyson. How dare you sir contaminate our low brow urban fantasy/noir detective fiction with Victorian poetry!

The Title of Hendrick’s Thesis “The influence of Victorian Poets on the Development of Contemporary Urban Fantasy”

[The_Sibelis]

I consider since outsiders appear different based on which reality they're trying to enter, the Jotuns where the outsiders, iirc they were considered outside the asgardian realms. They retreated when outside no longer had the ability to mirror them.. when Mab made a place for winter to exist inside reality.

[vultur]

There's not much information in terms of relation to other Nordic myths. Mostly just connected with varying sailors.

Yeah, the kraken legend is of Scandinavian origin, but I think it's more maritime folklore than connected directly to the Norse myths involving the Aesir/Vanir, Jotuns, etc. (I'm not sure if the legend goes back that far either... the Wikipedia article claims it goes back to the Sagas but the references actually quoted refer to whale-like creatures not actually called kraken...)

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Jim doesn’t just take classic myths he takes all sources of information, D&D and literature and film and tv are just as valid as sources for his world and ripe for incorporation, Jim is building his world, and he gets to choose which Lego’s he uses from which play set.

We have the Faithsabre from Star Wars myths sitting in the same book as the Hounds of Tindalos from the Cthulhu myths, sitting beside Gaelic mythology in the shape of  Ethnui.

When I point to Tennyson’s the Kraken and the Clash of the Titans, that is exactly it, and I would add It came From Beneath The Sea, Harryhausen’s giant Octopus flick, based yes on the classical Kraken of Norse maritime  myth and history. Also the Watcher in the Water at the Gates of Moriah, another tentacled watchdog. Rings is another huge influence on Jim.

Both Jim and Harry would have watched all of Harryhausen’s stuff. They are huge nerds and proud of it, but do not have a narrow focus limited to merely one fandom, they both enjoy a smorgasbord of fandom, sometimes sampling here and there, sometimes piling their plate up high with a particular choice dainty morsel. Here Jim went for the Calamari with several different dips.

All of which reminds of the one occasion where I actually broke bread with Jim, I did indeed have the Calamari with a sweet chilli sauce. It was delicious, but I seriously doubt it had anything to do with the Kraken.

[Snark Knight]

I don't think the Jotuns are necessarily Outsiders themselves. But perhaps they are related/connected like the Fomor and the Outsiders are.

That's confirmed in one of the short stories. Sigrun calls the Fomor cousins of the Jotuns.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

And Harry found a 3 foot long footprint on the beach.

[Yuillegan]

That's confirmed in one of the short stories. Sigrun calls the Fomor cousins of the Jotuns.

Indeed, it is mentioned a few times. But I wonder if there is an Outsider crossover on the venn diagram. I mean, by cousins it could mean that the Fomor are sort of scions of Outsiders...or it could mean that both the Fomor and the Jotuns are both scions (or somehow related) to the Outsiders. Or something else entirely of course.

And Harry found a 3 foot long footprint on the beach.

Yeah, definitely not Ethniu's I think. More likely one of her bruisers.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

What are the odds Murphy takes down a giant with the Rocket launcher?