Elaine

[Ed0517]

hmmm.. OK IIRC Harry HAD made ice before his knighthood by drawing energy out of water. Think he made an ice bridge once and a slippery spot for a fetch to fall on

[Arjan]

Necromancy is also associated with cold as most clearly shown in the beginning of Dead Beat when Bob called back his memories from his Kemper period and introduces Harry to necromancy. Made him a necromancy maybe.

[Mira]

hmmm.. OK IIRC Harry HAD made ice before his knighthood by drawing energy out of water. Think he made an ice bridge once and a slippery spot for a fetch to fall on

He did indeed, in White Night  he did it to Lake Michigan.

[g33k]

Most (IIRC, all) of Harry's pre-Winter icecapades, however, were explicitly physics-based hot/cold thermal stuff.

He wanted ice, had no ice spell... so he Fuego'ed, and drew the heat for the fire specifically from the area he wanted to ice.  The ice was just the side-effect of the Fuego.

[Mira]

Most (IIRC, all) of Harry's pre-Winter icecapades, however, were explicitly physics-based hot/cold thermal stuff.

He wanted ice, had no ice spell... so he Fuego'ed, and drew the heat for the fire specifically from the area he wanted to ice.  The ice was just the side-effect of the Fuego.

 That is also true, now however he has both fire and ice..  If I remember correctly though I cannot place the short story it came from he also has "earth."  He pulled power from the earth itself, I think he said it was one of the most dangerous and hard to control. 

[toodeep]

That is also true, now however he has both fire and ice..  If I remember correctly though I cannot place the short story it came from he also has "earth."  He pulled power from the earth itself, I think he said it was one of the most dangerous and hard to control.

Harry's command of earth has been really on again/off again.  In one of the earlier books, his sword cane was enchanted to help with earth magic, and I thought there was a quote that it was one of his stronger suites.  But then he proceeded to not use it much after that.  We have three examples - the ferromancy in the wraith deeps that pulled a wall of magma from the ground to hold back the ghouls, a minor case of the magnify/localize gravity used in the short story "it's my birthday" to kill a new black court vampire, and then a major use of the gravity spell at Chicken pizza where he also tapped a lay line and used it to crush a small army of crazy red court vamps.  Meanwhile, he uses fire, air, and force almost every book, and now uses ice liberally as well.  I don't think we've ever seen him use water, have we?

[g33k]

Harry's command of earth has been really on again/off again.  In one of the earlier books, his sword cane was enchanted to help with earth magic, and I thought there was a quote that it was one of his stronger suites.  But then he proceeded to not use it much after that.  We have three examples - the ferromancy in the wraith deeps that pulled a wall of magma from the ground to hold back the ghouls, a minor case of the magnify/localize gravity used in the short story "it's my birthday" to kill a new black court vampire, and then a major use of the gravity spell at Chicken pizza where he also tapped a lay line and used it to crush a small army of crazy red court vamps.  Meanwhile, he uses fire, air, and force almost every book, and now uses ice liberally as well.  I don't think we've ever seen him use water, have we?

I think ley-line magic -- whatever the spell that gets cast with ley-power -- always has an earth-magic component.

I don't think we've seen Harry use water spells, though.  Harry believes running water disperses magic; and so it does, for him.  Ramirez has strong aquamancy, I think, and he may not be as limited as Harry, in this regard.  Did we see Harry summon up water spirits?  Maybe when searching for Maggie?  Or in flashback of searching for Elaine (in the post-Justin timeframe)?

[Mira]

Harry's command of earth has been really on again/off again.  In one of the earlier books, his sword cane was enchanted to help with earth magic, and I thought there was a quote that it was one of his stronger suites.  But then he proceeded to not use it much after that.  We have three examples - the ferromancy in the wraith deeps that pulled a wall of magma from the ground to hold back the ghouls, a minor case of the magnify/localize gravity used in the short story "it's my birthday" to kill a new black court vampire, and then a major use of the gravity spell at Chicken pizza where he also tapped a lay line and used it to crush a small army of crazy red court vamps.  Meanwhile, he uses fire, air, and force almost every book, and now uses ice liberally as well.  I don't think we've ever seen him use water, have we?

  I think it depends on what the ice is made of.  Ice can be water, it can be methane or several other elements.  So Harry's ice magic can also be water magic.

[morriswalters]

Water damps magic, it's the reason why Demonreach is built in the lake.  Given that mechanic I doubt that Harry will be throwing fire hose streams of water. Neither does he directly manipulate matter in most cases.  I assumed earth magic to be a method of tapping the energy in the tectonic plates.  And I believe that is Eb's specialty.

[magical_liopleurodon]

I think ley-line magic -- whatever the spell that gets cast with ley-power -- always has an earth-magic component.

I don't think we've seen Harry use water spells, though.  Harry believes running water disperses magic; and so it does, for him.  Ramirez has strong aquamancy, I think, and he may not be as limited as Harry, in this regard.  Did we see Harry summon up water spirits?  Maybe when searching for Maggie?  Or in flashback of searching for Elaine (in the post-Justin timeframe)?

He might have used water magic once --- when he was battling Demonreach with the elements

[toodeep]

He might have used water magic once --- when he was battling Demonreach with the elements

I haven't checked, but I think you're right, since I think he hit the four elements as part of that challenge.

We know from what Jim has said that Carlos's entropic shield is water magic, that shape changing is water magic, and that most healing is water magic.  We also know that water dissipates magic, unless you know what you are doing like the Fomor, so there are work arounds to the magic dissipating effects of water - I expect that water magic works just fine around water....

[forumghost]

I haven't checked, but I think you're right, since I think he hit the four elements as part of that challenge.

We know from what Jim has said that Carlos's entropic shield is water magic, that shape changing is water magic, and that most healing is water magic.  We also know that water dissipates magic, unless you know what you are doing like the Fomor, so there are work arounds to the magic dissipating effects of water - I expect that water magic works just fine around water....

Water Magic does almost all the cool things, because Harry doesn't do it.

[Snark Knight]

He might have used water magic once --- when he was battling Demonreach with the elements

He did, but iirc he pulled water from the ground rather than create it from nothing by magic.

[Ed0517]

I think it is RUNNING water that grounds magic - Carlos uses a shield, but isn't it static?

As far as healing, don't they always say you take the water from the body, we are something like 7 pounds of salts? Blood is mostly water, yet blood magic is strong. And The Gatekeeper cast standing on the dock of Demonreach just fine

[Mira]

I think it is RUNNING water that grounds magic - Carlos uses a shield, but isn't it static?

As far as healing, don't they always say you take the water from the body, we are something like 7 pounds of salts? Blood is mostly water, yet blood magic is strong. And The Gatekeeper cast standing on the dock of Demonreach just fine

   I think you are right, it is running water that dampens magic, because back in White Night when Harry turned the lake water to ice, he was in a boat.