Mab is Nfected question

[nadia.skylark]

Say rather, Harry is too often softened by his emotions.  He chooses softer approaches, is gentler, kinder... warmer.  Not what Mab wants in her Winter Knight.

True. Mab definitely wants Harry to be less compassionate. (Incidentally, I think this is a mistake. His compassion is often what fuels the heights of power that he reaches, pushing him to attempt things that he would otherwise not consider. I can't help but think that a less compassionate Harry would also be a weaker one. I also think that Mab, by her nature, is incapable of recognizing this, though.)

The problem is, Mab's actions are not likely to make Harry less compassionate, or less warm, or less inclined to help people simply because they need it. The only thing they do make Harry "less" of is less inclined to agree with anything Mab says on general principle.

What is making Harry less compassionate, on the other hand, is the Winter Knight mantle, and Harry's need to use it. This would seem to imply that if Mab wants him to be more Winter-like, she could best do so by putting Harry in situations where Harry would be willing to draw upon it. Possibly in situations already designed to encourage people to be less compassionate: where no matter how hard you try you're losing people, where you need to have "bucketloads of sangfroid" to get through it--you know, like the descriptions we get in Ghost Days and Skin Game of what fighting the war against the Fomor to protect Chicago and other cities is like. Which, in fact, Harry would be glad to do because he would be defending people, so Mab wouldn't have to go through her usual rigamarole of having to force Harry into doing it. Which he has plenty of time to do, even, because Mab doesn't seem to need him more than a few days out of the year. Which would help him gain and maintain allies that he could use to help fulfill Mab's purposes when needed (and he would: see Cold Days).

[kbrizzle]

@nadia
I think part of it is that using your emotions to power your magic is kind of a JV move - we don’t really see any of the other higher-level practitioners working themselves into any emotional frenzy to perform complex & powerful magic (like Ivy or anyone in SC). I think Mab is trying to level Harry up quickly for the fight that is to come. Recall Lea’s training of Molly & her chastisement of Harry about the same - this is just how Winter sees the world. There is no room for compassion or kindness, because they are things the Adversary will exploit (like in Aurora or Lily).
If you think about it, Harry in StF or FM or GP is a whole lot more emotional, worried about covering his ass (especially from his own shady behavior) & reliant on Bob/potions etc. Harry as WK doesn’t even need a staff & is a lot more sure of himself (much fewer doubts).
So I don’t see compassion as a major source of power for Harry in the future books, but I do think it’s vital for him to hold onto in order to preserve his humanity as it gets eaten away by the Winter mantle.

@Cozarkian
I don’t think any immortals in the DV have free will - that is what they have to give up. You have simply pointed out examples of their Will, there is no evidence that it is free. That is what wins Harry the “fight” with MW - that he is able to juice his free will to resist what his mantle’s highest beholden is ordering him to do with Soulfire (despite her threats).

On a separate note, I don’t think Harry will kill Mab, although it is a definite possibility (not necessarily because of the she’s Nfected theory). Mother Summer states that the purpose of Winter is to guard the Gates. If Harry wins the BAT at the end & Outsiders are beaten forever, Winter will not have a purpose. So just like the Jotun/ Aesir no longer run around much after Winter took over guarding the Gates, I think Winter too will cease to exist (& so will most of the Fae 😢)

[morriswalters]

The problem is that for Harry, "willing to do the work that [someone tells him] needs to be done," correlates pretty strongly with how much he likes the person telling him. If the Merlin tells Harry that "A" needs to be done, he's way more likely to decide that, no, actually "B" needs to be done than if Michael tells him that "A" needs to be done.

He should love Mab, as he broke his back doing the right thing.  She gave him back his legs. 

How you feel about someone is only a small piece of what goes on when you work with or for them.  If your house is on fire you don't ask the fireman to be likeable, you ask him to do his job, even if he is otherwise an asshole.

On a separate note, I don’t think Harry will kill Mab, although it is a definite possibility (not necessarily because of the she’s Nfected theory). Mother Summer states that the purpose of Winter is to guard the Gates. If Harry wins the BAT at the end & Outsiders are beaten forever, Winter will not have a purpose. So just like the Jotun/ Aesir no longer run around much after Winter took over guarding the Gates, I think Winter too will cease to exist (& so will most of the Fae 😢)

I suspect that Mab will be back stabbed by someone in close, and that  Harry will mourn her greatly hen she is gone.  Just my opinion.

[nadia.skylark]

He should love Mab, as he broke his back doing the right thing.  She gave him back his legs. 

What? This makes no sense whatsoever. Mab gave Harry back his legs as an explicit part of a bargain that Harry was extremely unhappy making, only made because his daughter was in danger, and was willing to kill himself to get out of. And even if none of that were true, you're still not expected to love, for example, the doctor that fixes you when you go to the hospital. I don't see how any of what Mab has done would cause Harry to love her, much less obligate him to.

[morriswalters]

What? This makes no sense whatsoever. Mab gave Harry back his legs as an explicit part of a bargain that Harry was extremely unhappy making, only made because his daughter was in danger, and was willing to kill himself to get out of. And even if none of that were true, you're still not expected to love, for example, the doctor that fixes you when you go to the hospital. I don't see how any of what Mab has done would cause Harry to love her, much less obligate him to.

That was just a taste of sarcasm. The next time I'll tag it as such.  On the balance, for a creature portrayed as evil, Mab has been remarkably consistent in not interfering in human affairs.  And she has never tasked Harry with anything that didn't help him as much as it helped her.  Consider Skin Game.  In the end Mab's mechanization's make Harry's allies rich when they are allowed to leave Hades with the diamonds.  A new Knight is created and Nicodemus is slapped down.  And Harry is holding the magical weapons.

[g33k]

True. Mab definitely wants Harry to be less compassionate. (Incidentally, I think this is a mistake. His compassion is often what fuels the heights of power that he reaches, pushing him to attempt things that he would otherwise not consider. I can't help but think that a less compassionate Harry would also be a weaker one. I also think that Mab, by her nature, is incapable of recognizing this, though.)

100% agree.

The problem is, Mab's actions are not likely to make Harry less compassionate, or less warm, or less inclined to help people simply because they need it...

I think the same applies here.  Mab's doing the best she can, poor thing; but she's out of her depth with Harry Dresden.  She has no idea how such a mush-hearted softie can be so stubborn.  No idea at all (and that means she resorts to lowest-common-denominator tactics, battering Harry with violence and threats thereof).

[nadia.skylark]

Mab's doing the best she can, poor thing; but she's out of her depth with Harry Dresden.  She has no idea how such a mush-hearted softie can be so stubborn.  No idea at all (and that means she resorts to lowest-common-denominator tactics, battering Harry with violence and threats thereof).

This makes sense.