Sample Chapters on TOR

[Mira]

Butcher made a point of saying the Winter Knight was dangerous in the cold and the dark but we didn't get to see any real WK mojo. Resisting cold is fine and all but not very interesting.

No?  It helped him to see in the dark and cold of the water.  It pulled him out of that soul gaze, made him realize the creature was afraid of him.  These are all Winter Knight mantle things, remember Harry's wizard powers were neutralized by the water.  So though subtle, the mantle was critical for his survival, it also prevented him from being paralyzed by pain from his head wounds.  Maybe not interesting but it cannot all be flash bang.

Though I'm pretty amazed that kraken qualify as people enough to get a soulgaze. Do the rules of magic then apply? It's kind of alarming, to be honest.

Most likely it wasn't born a kracken, the Fomor have done some interesting bio-engineering with
the children it has kidnapped over the centuries.  From the landscape Harry saw, it had to have been at least a couple of thousand years old.

We know soulgazes are mediated by the recipient, Harry gets images and video but I think Ramirez get music. I think the recipient's frame of reference also affected what they experience. So everyone gets a different version of Harry. That's why the normal people who soulgazed Harry are gibbering over whatever it was that could frighten a kraken. They see the parts of Harry that matter to them.

Susan fainted, the FBI agent begged him not to consign him to Hell.  Everyone may see it differently depending on themselves, but I believe they still see basically what is the essence of who Harry really is, not just what matters to them.  Ramirez may hear music, but as we all know music can communicate a lot of different things, mood, emotion, pictures..  However it has never been said that people at the other end of a soul gaze with Ramirez hear music. 

[noblehunter]

No?  It helped him to see in the dark and cold of the water.  It pulled him out of that soul gaze, made him realize the creature was afraid of him.  These are all Winter Knight mantle things, remember Harry's wizard powers were neutralized by the water.  So though subtle, the mantle was critical for his survival, it also prevented him from being paralyzed by pain from his head wounds.  Maybe not interesting but it cannot all be flash bang.

None of that made Harry particularly dangerous though. I only think it was a bit of misstep as the line led the reader in one direction when the narrative was going in another. It feels like a leftover from a draft where Harry did something a little more flashy than not drown and play back up to the ladies.

[BrainFireBob]

None of that made Harry particularly dangerous though. I only think it was a bit of misstep as the line led the reader in one direction when the narrative was going in another. It feels like a leftover from a draft where Harry did something a little more flashy than not drown and play back up to the ladies.

I think it's from being half a book. He's worried about being a wizard helpless in the dark with monsters, then realizes he's also a thing that goes bump in the night. He can see the creature, and is fighting with his near superhuman strength and pain immunity at that point.

[Mira]

I think it's from being half a book. He's worried about being a wizard helpless in the dark with monsters, then realizes he's also a thing that goes bump in the night. He can see the creature, and is fighting with his near superhuman strength and pain immunity at that point.

Indeed, I thought while reading it he is lucky he has that mantle, if he was merely a wizard he'd have been screwed. 

[knightedbishop]

To change gears, I was the most interested in Molly swooping in during chapter two. The description of her in particular: “Molly wore one of those surfer’s wet suits, with patterns of deep purple and pale green on it in the streaks and rings of a highly venomous sea snake, her mouth stretched into a madwoman’s grin. Her hair, luminous silver in the weird light, spread out around her head in an otherworldly aura.”

Her mouth stretched in a mad woman’s grin. This sounds a lot like Maeve when she was overtaken with battle lust. I worry for Molly. That lady’s mantle is an order of magnitude more complex than the knight’s. It’s changing her, and she may be too headstrong to realize. I remember Harry when he gave into the knight’s mantle in Cold Days on the island. Primitive. Wanting to hunt and screw Maeve. That’s Winter at its core: wanting to kill (Winter’s enemies) and make babies (so they can kill Winter’s enemies). Giving in to the mantle gives you a lot of raw power, but it’s easy to get lost. Is that what’s happening to Molly? If so...I hope she finally comes clean to her family, and they turn out to be a critical anchor that helps her stay her.

[morriswalters]

I wondered if Jim had spent too much time with Aquaman comic books?

[Mira]

To change gears, I was the most interested in Molly swooping in during chapter two. The description of her in particular: “Molly wore one of those surfer’s wet suits, with patterns of deep purple and pale green on it in the streaks and rings of a highly venomous sea snake, her mouth stretched into a madwoman’s grin. Her hair, luminous silver in the weird light, spread out around her head in an otherworldly aura.”

Her mouth stretched in a mad woman’s grin. This sounds a lot like Maeve when she was overtaken with battle lust. I worry for Molly. That lady’s mantle is an order of magnitude more complex than the knight’s. It’s changing her, and she may be too headstrong to realize. I remember Harry when he gave into the knight’s mantle in Cold Days on the island. Primitive. Wanting to hunt and screw Maeve. That’s Winter at its core: wanting to kill (Winter’s enemies) and make babies (so they can kill Winter’s enemies). Giving in to the mantle gives you a lot of raw power, but it’s easy to get lost. Is that what’s happening to Molly? If so...I hope she finally comes clean to her family, and they turn out to be a critical anchor that helps her stay her.

Oh I think it was made very clear in Peace Talks that Molly is being changed, and it isn't like the Winter Knight mantle that perhaps can be shed some day.  The Knight is mortal, the Lady's mantle makes the owner immortal.  However unless it drives Molly mad for some reason, I don't think she will turn out to be like Maeve.  She had problems before she ever became Lady, and over time they just got worse until Nemesis finished her off.

[Arjan]

Oh I think it was made very clear in Peace Talks that Molly is being changed, and it isn't like the Winter Knight mantle that perhaps can be shed some day.  The Knight is mortal, the Lady's mantle makes the owner immortal.  However unless it drives Molly mad for some reason, I don't think she will turn out to be like Maeve.  She had problems before she ever became Lady, and over time they just got worse until Nemesis finished her off.

The difference is that Molly knows the winter lady is doing an important job worth doing. Her sense of duty is well developed. She is doing her job. We know that Maeve was not doing her job at all. That means that Molly as far more in sync with her mantle which probably means she won't get crazy that easily.

[vultur]

I don't think it was Ursiel though that he soul gazed, I think it was one of the ones Shiro killed.

Well, maybe the actual Soulgaze was with Rasmussen (Ursiel's host) rather than the Fallen itself, but that was definitely Ursiel that Shiro, Michael, and Sanya killed in the alley - the 6 legged bear form.

He shows up again in SG, but with a different host.

[Mira]

Well, maybe the actual Soulgaze was with Rasmussen (Ursiel's host) rather than the Fallen itself, but that was definitely Ursiel that Shiro, Michael, and Sanya killed in the alley - the 6 legged bear form.

He shows up again in SG, but with a different host.

  You're right,  for some reason I thought he popped up later, so wasn't killed.  However the point is, it was the host that he soul gazed with and that was a big factor in my opinion in his resistance of Lasciel once he realized her shadow was in his head.

We know that the Fomor kidnap kids, no doubt have always done it.  The Turtlenecks according to Harry were human once and altered by the Fomor.  The kracken could very well have been a human
a couple of thousand years ago, that they manipulated.  So what little bit of humanity still existed, Harry was able to soul gaze.  I also got the impression that he was shocked by the fact that it happened at all, because if this was just an overgrown squid, a soul gaze just wouldn't have happened no matter how long Harry looked into it's eyes.

[Regenbogen]

You know what came to my mind immediately, when Molly turned up?
The one woman rave. LOL. I thought, what if the kraken just needs the right kind of music like this:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=43OVm86-4rU