Was there a Dragon in Changes?

[raidem]

My point of disagreement is in calling the impression from chichen itza Dragon, I'm more inclined to label it something else like sleeping ancient, god, titan, genus loci, etc.

As to your reference to Harry's impression of the outer gates, etc in your arguments, I quite followed them whereas Mr. Death didn't.

[raidem]

There is Woj on Dragon that they could be given a job like dividing continents with a river, etc.

I would include reference but I'm on kindle, so it's hard to.

So, there is sufficient evidence to support at least a passing resemblance to a Dragon's role.  But my impression is that they would tap these key lines, forces to do so.  It should be mentioned that dragons resent mortals, mankind, for usurping their role in the world.  So I suspect that wizards to some degree is able to do some portion of what a dragon can do.  And dragons resent it.

As to kukulcan, the Mayan god referenced in changes, he is a feathered snake not a Dragon per se.

[jonas]

"feathered" is an interpretation of the Nahuatl language though. I see it as a possible reference to simply the idea of wings itself. Course I suppose we don't know dragons never have feathers yet...
Anyway, my point was, at the spot you mention we see the aura of a dragon's horde and at Chicken pizza we see a dragon's raw power. If we take the fact Aztec civilization was overtaken by Mayan sacrificial gods, turning Quetzalcoatl to Kulkan and the relative distance between where the smaug horde was to where chicken pizza is, then we likely are seeing the originals place of hording for Aztec 'feather serpent' and where the LoONs sacrificed it into their power base. they ripped it apart, but since they are of it's power now they weren't directly stopped from his hording spot. I don't expect to see a dragon, but they make reference to them having a similar desire to Horde and aura about their catch of treasures. I see that as reason enough to look at their source of power and see the same comparison to what a dragon can do in a positive light.
Totally agree on the death curse part though, insidious things.

[raidem]

WOJ's on topic of Dragon's and what role they fill.

The other dragon still walking the earth is named Pyrovax
Once & Future Podcast @~60m
Dragons are the kind of forces that you put in charge of things like..
"It's time for another ice age, you- go handle that."
"We really need this continent to be split by a giant river, arrange it."
"Ok."
That's the kind of thing that Dragons would be doing

2009 WoJ forum post:
6. ferrovax - is this because he's the OLDEST dragon? (i thought it was an empty boast) or because he's a dragon?
Ferrovax feels absolutely no need to boast.  It's because he /is/ a Dragon, large D, an elemental force of the cosmos.  He isn't some kind of Smaug hanging around a nice apartment.  He's a Dragon in a more Asian sense of the concept, a semi-divine being who was once given authority over various portions of the mortal universe, and who was responsible for their orderly procession.  There /are/ Smauglike dragons (though not nearly as many now as there have been in the past, thanks George!) but they are essentially nothing but emissaries and servitors created in the image of the real thing.
Regardless of big D or little d, dragons almost universally resent humanity for usurping the balance of power in the world.

Considering these, I still feel there is a distinction between the Dragons and what Harry described when he pulled from the Leylines at Chichen Itza. There is some sentience as described by Harry within the well at Chichen Itza.  I know Jim has mentioned a Titan in one of his WOJ's.  Most believe it to be bound within Demonreach.  Perhaps there is something similar asleep beneath CI.

[Snark Knight]

I believe the WOJ on Dragons was that there are only two left alive, not only two left awake. And if we can interpret their domains from their names, the survivors are into iron and fire. It could fit the quoted description of the ley line's energy, but it could equally be coming from some other powerful being with a geological affinity, or be entirely naturally occurring.

[Mr. Death]

ppl shouldn't lack such respect for others opinions and perspectives, the inability to do so is the direct cause of divisions and 'othering'.

Right, people shouldn't lack such respect. Let's take a look at your post.

Do you call this respectful?

"Sorry your perspective is too limiting to see anything not there directly. Must suck for you trying to play clue. Out of your element, no?"

That sounds a lot like you're directly insulting my intelligence, just because I disagree with you.

"I just refuse to allow you to shit on it based solely on your disagreeing."

And that sounds a lot like you're dismissing my arguments (and, I note, not actually answering half the questions in my post).

The one being disrespectful is you.

I can disagree with any theory I want. You apparently really want there to be a dragon. Fine. But there still exists no evidence of a Dragon. There still exists no acknowledgement by anyone involved of even the possibility of a Dragon, including someone who gives a full infodump about the site, its significance, and what Harry can expect to find there. There still exists no narrative gain in putting a Dragon there and not using him.

Nobody has ever attributed any of the Red Court's power to any sort of Dragon. It's just plain not something that has any support in the books.

I have explained my reasoning, clearly. You are the one who keeps resorting to insulting me in an attempt to undermine or shame me into acquiescing.

[jonas]

Right, people shouldn't lack such respect. Let's take a look at your post.

Do you call this respectful?

"Sorry your perspective is too limiting to see anything not there directly. Must suck for you trying to play clue. Out of your element, no?"

That sounds a lot like you're directly insulting my intelligence, just because I disagree with you.

"I just refuse to allow you to shit on it based solely on your disagreeing."

And that sounds a lot like you're dismissing my arguments (and, I note, not actually answering half the questions in my post).

The one being disrespectful is you.

I can disagree with any theory I want. You apparently really want there to be a dragon. Fine. But there still exists no evidence of a Dragon. There still exists no acknowledgement by anyone involved of even the possibility of a Dragon, including someone who gives a full infodump about the site, its significance, and what Harry can expect to find there. There still exists no narrative gain in putting a Dragon there and not using him.

Nobody has ever attributed any of the Red Court's power to any sort of Dragon. It's just plain not something that has any support in the books.

I have explained my reasoning, clearly. You are the one who keeps resorting to insulting me in an attempt to undermine or shame me into acquiescing.

Actually if you look, you started it and I just played ball, no? your habitual in it btw, just couple weeks ago calling me childish in my remarks... which did I do to earn that? Cause I can point back to that which you insist on doing time and again in the same situation for the same reason. and yea, you can expect me to jab back within reason.
You 'misunderstand', claim relevant parallels are illrelevent, ignore any point I make to redirect to non linear opinion laced arguments that you expect me to pick apart apparently.
I'm stating an idea, your the one insisting on replying, continuously in a I wanna win additude and saying such an idea is impossible based solely upon your own preponderance of the evidence. Your known for it and i'm not always in the fray to be the common denominator here
Which btw if you notice, I don't try to 'win' a theory unless you count reading it later in the books, I just keep the game in play.
Sorry if you don't like me, but feel entirely free to not quote/respond to me if I cause such duress your entirely enabled to ignore my existence. Gosh knows others in life have lol.

[wardenferry419]

This thread is getting less theory and more personal.

[Mr. Death]

Yes, Jonas, there wasn't anything in that post about this discussion. You seem intent on just attacking me personally now. Please stop.

[iago]

Thanks for bickering like children, folks! The "when will I decide that the forum is no longer worth the trouble when folks can just bicker with each other on other social media instead" counter has ticked up by one.

Thread locked.