Author Topic: What Exactly Is A Freeholding Lord?  (Read 3703 times)

Offline Conor

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What Exactly Is A Freeholding Lord?
« on: April 06, 2014, 02:39:55 PM »
Hi folks,

I'm aware of a certain NPC who is a Freeholding Lord in Our World and it lists who signed him in (And I remember same from the novels) but where I'm a bit sketchy is exactly what rights and responsibilities being a Freeholding Lord would grant a character.

Can anyone give any advice or suggestions on this?

Some questions I have:

How is the "territory" of a Freeholding Lord determined? How large is it? Presumably it would be a small section of the city they are based in?

What authority does a Freeholding Lord have?

What responsibilities?


If anyone would like to chime in and chat about this one I'd really appreciate it!

Thanks

Offline Tedronai

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Re: What Exactly Is A Freeholding Lord?
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2014, 03:22:16 PM »
The 'territory' of a Freeholding Lord is determined by a combination of what they have the power and/or influence to control and what the other members of the Accords are willing to recognize (the latter being significantly but possibly not solely influenced by the former).  The former might be referred to as their 'effective' territory, while the latter could be called their 'official' territory.

A Freeholding Lord has all the authority, or at least most of it, of an Accorded supernatural nation within their territory.  That is to say, they have treaty rights when dealing with members of other supernatural nations, and little else.

A Freeholding Lord is responsible for upholding the Accords among and with respect to his subjects.
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Offline UmbraLux

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Re: What Exactly Is A Freeholding Lord?
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2014, 03:35:49 PM »
How is the "territory" of a Freeholding Lord determined? How large is it? Presumably it would be a small section of the city they are based in?
As Tedronai notes, a freeholding lord's territory is going to be limited to what they can control and protect. 

Quote
What authority does a Freeholding Lord have?

What responsibilities?
Have you read Even Hand?  It's a Marcone PoV short story which deals with the Accords and his status as Freeholding Lord.  The basics are fairly simple.  Any other Accord signee / rep needs the lord's permission to act within the lord's territory.  The lord and his men can't kill reps of other lords without provocation and even then will need to pay a wergild / blood price.
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Offline Conor

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Re: What Exactly Is A Freeholding Lord?
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2014, 04:42:10 PM »
Thanks folks, those are really useful responses.

I'll have to pick up Dark and Stormy Knights, I haven't read that one yet!


Offline Cadd

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Re: What Exactly Is A Freeholding Lord?
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2014, 05:18:59 PM »
All in all, I think it can be summed up along the lines of - Being a Freeholding Lord makes you something like a city-state. Just like Monaco can sit down next to Russia and both be considered sovereign nations, Marcone can sit down next to the Summer Court of the Fae. No one is going to think they are equal in power, but they are entitled to essentially the same respect (and that respect is demanded of him aswell, of course).

Offline vultur

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Re: What Exactly Is A Freeholding Lord?
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2014, 08:12:40 PM »
All in all, I think it can be summed up along the lines of - Being a Freeholding Lord makes you something like a city-state. Just like Monaco can sit down next to Russia and both be considered sovereign nations, Marcone can sit down next to the Summer Court of the Fae. No one is going to think they are equal in power, but they are entitled to essentially the same respect (and that respect is demanded of him aswell, of course).

Yeah.

I think the main difference between a Freeholding Lord and another nation is that for a Freeholding Lord, only the Lord is given the rights of a signatory. Harry, as a member of the White Council, has rights and responsibilities under the Accords; but Hendricks is just a servant of Marcone's.

This is also probably why Gard needs Harry in SmF -- Donar Vadderung is a Freeholding Lord, rather than Monoc Securities being a signatory nation, so Gard doesn't have the rights of a signatory, while Harry does.

Offline blackstaff67

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Re: What Exactly Is A Freeholding Lord?
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2014, 12:04:15 AM »
Rules of Hospitality might also apply.  Our group considered making ourselves freeholding lords until someone pointed out the need to offer hospitality to a Vampire of the Red or Black courts.
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Offline Cadd

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Re: What Exactly Is A Freeholding Lord?
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2014, 09:48:18 AM »
Oh yes - rules of hospitality is one of the foremost obligations, and I think quite probably one of the prime reasons less...amoral...individuals might choose to not sign on... They want to be able to choose who they play host to - I sure would! ;)

Offline narphoenix

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Re: What Exactly Is A Freeholding Lord?
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2014, 04:39:50 PM »
Oh yes - rules of hospitality is one of the foremost obligations, and I think quite probably one of the prime reasons less...amoral...individuals might choose to not sign on... They want to be able to choose who they play host to - I sure would! ;)

Of course, nothing says that you can't hire Jared Kincaid to wait outside your house for when they leave. Letter of the law, not spirit. :)
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Offline umdshaman

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Re: What Exactly Is A Freeholding Lord?
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2014, 05:58:08 PM »
Two points:

I'm pretty sure the Laws of Hospitality only apply if an invitation was issued. You are not REQUIRED to invite a supernatural entity into your home to parley with them; but if you do, guest rights probably apply.

I'm also pretty sure the Laws of Hospitality aren't actually part of the Accords, but rather old traditions. I realize for many people Grave Perils is going to be a sticking point for this, but as I interpreted it; Bianca's invitation was binding because of the loss of face; not the Accords. Any interaction with the Accords would be because she gave her oath to it in the invitation. Harry, on the other hand, didn't start a war by violating the Laws of Hospitality but rather because he initiated an 'unprovoked' attack on the Red Court (because Susan is not one of the White Council's charges).
« Last Edit: April 07, 2014, 08:45:38 PM by umdshaman »

Offline Taran

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Re: What Exactly Is A Freeholding Lord?
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2014, 06:54:22 PM »
Two points:

I'm pretty sure the Laws of Hospitality only apply if an invitation was issued. You are not REQUIRED to invite a supernatural entity into your home to parley with them; but if you do, guest rights probably apply.

I'm also pretty sure the Laws of Hospitality aren't actually part of the Accords, but rather old traditions. I realize for many people Grave Perils is going to be a sticking point for this, but as I interpreted it; Bianca's invitation was binding because of the loss of face; not the Accords. Any interaction with the Accords would be because you gave her oath to it in the invitation. Harry, on the other hand, didn't start a war by violating the Laws of Hospitality but rather because he initiated an 'unprovoked' attack on the Red Court (because Susan is not one of the White Council's charges).

I agree with all these points.  I'm trying to remember what happened in Grave Peril.  It's been so long.

Offline PirateJack

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Re: What Exactly Is A Freeholding Lord?
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2014, 05:50:09 AM »
This is a basic summary of the ball scene and the events afterwards. Some minor points may be missing, but I think I got everything.

(click to show/hide)
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