Jedi Knight

[Haru]

If the Jedi can't attack with their Powers, then why does their code of honour say they can't attack with their powers? No point prohibiting the impossible. I'd rather have the force choke/telekinetic projectile option be available to any Jedi willing to take that step.

Good point, hadn't thought about it that way. You're right, choice is everything, so this should be an option, even if it isn't used all that much. It might even be ok to use it every once in a while, not so much to attack to kill, but to get the attention away from someone else or things like that. But tread careful, this might lead to shooting lightning.

Wings + a Discipline stunt. Wings is underpriced, so I didn't want to push my luck when imitating it.

I considered making the upgrade 1 Refresh with Force Field as a prereq, since it makes sense that somebody moving with Discipline could dodge with Discipline and since the existing prereq is kind of steep.

Hmm, as a single power, I might agree, but as part of the whole telekinesis package, I think 1 refresh should be enough.

Still, I think I'll use your Telekinesis as is, for the most part. Unification should probably not be an option, but other than that, it seems pretty solid.

[Taran]

Using the force to hurt someone leads to the Darkside, doesn't it?

Could you match it up with something like demonic co-pilot or sponsored?  So when they tap into the "offensive" darkside of the force they take a point of debt...which might lead to more dark deeds or a change of aspect...I dunno.

[Deadmanwalking]

It's probably better done with Lawbreaker. Especially if sticking in the Dresden Universe.

Breaking any of the Laws with Jedi powers counts as doing it with magic and thus nets you Lawbreaker as appropriate (and you'd receive Lawbreaker bonuses when using such powers).

If going for a full system conversion, I'd come up with a new set of laws, but for the actual Dresdenverse, I'd stick with what we've got.

[Taran]

Then you might as well make the force channelling...which Haru, I think, was trying to avoid.

[Deadmanwalking]

Then you might as well make the force channelling...which Haru, I think, was trying to avoid.

Channeling does a lot more than just count for the Laws...it enables telekinetic force bubbles, invisibility, and a host of other things...as well as costing Mental Stress.

[Taran]

Channeling does a lot more than just count for the Laws...it enables telekinetic force bubbles, invisibility, and a host of other things...as well as costing Mental Stress.

All these things, the force can do, yes.

[Haru]

Then you might as well make the force channelling...which Haru, I think, was trying to avoid.

Exactly, I wanted the powers to be granted from a higher power, not be part of the jedi himself.

Kind of like Odin took the mantle of Kringle, the white god is spreading out as well, taking up the mantle of the force. It's not much now, but it might grow in the future.

A compel on the high concept should be enough to keep him from abusing his power (it should be for any true believer). If he keeps it up, I think I'd give him a rephrased demonic co-pilot as a sort of divine lawbreaker stunt, dragging him down the dark side.

[Deadmanwalking]

Exactly, I wanted the powers to be granted from a higher power, not be part of the jedi himself.

*shrug* I, for one, still give out Lawbreaker on Sponsored Magic. If you don't do that then some alternative might be better than that particular option, yeah.

[Haru]

*shrug* I, for one, still give out Lawbreaker on Sponsored Magic. If you don't do that then some alternative might be better than that particular option, yeah.

Oh, I don't mean to let him get away with something like that for free. I think something along the lines of demonic co-pilot meets lawbreaker meets sponsor. It can help you do things, but it will put you into debt and push you down the dark side.

[Locnil]

Exactly, I wanted the powers to be granted from a higher power, not be part of the jedi himself.

Not to threadcrap, but... that seems highly illogical. If anything, Channelling strongly implies power from a higher source - it's the way magic works in the DV.

[Haru]

Not to threadcrap, but... that seems highly illogical. If anything, Channelling strongly implies power from a higher source - it's the way magic works in the DV.

No, absolutely not. Evocation and Channeling are both powered by the casters will before anything else. I know it is called channeling as in "channeling a higher power", but that's not what it actually means in this case, it is just a lesser for of evocation. Sponsored Magic would be powered by a higher power, but that's not what I am looking for here.

[Locnil]

It's really semantics, but magic, in the DV, is essentially channeling the ambient energies around you. Sure, it requires an effort of will, but that's just to get the process jumpstarted, and to guide the energies.  Really, I see only superficial differences between magic as presented in the DV and the Force.

But of course, since it's your template, whatever you say goes. I just wanted to point out that apparently you and I have entirely different views on what makes a power intrisic as ooposed to bestowed.

[Haru]

There is a big difference there, not only semantics.

If I have my private bank account, I can draw as much from it as I like and spend it on whatever I want. I can buy materials and make them into something new, but the whole thing is mine from start to finish, there is nobody else involved. Of course, I can only use as much money as I have.

On the other hand, if I am on a business account, it is not my money I am dealing with, it is my employers money. To a degree, I might be free on how I spend it, but there are plenty of restrictions on when and how I can use it. If I want to use some of the money on myself, I will have to pay it back, or in the worst case, I will get fired. If my employer doesn't like what I am doing, he'll just close the account, and I'm left with no money to spend whatsoever.

And the DV magic works pretty much exactly like this. Evocation and a lot of other powers are a private account, sponsored magic and any other form of sponsored powers are business accounts.

Both kinds can use magic as you described, moving energy from one place to another, but that doesn't make all magic external. Hell, most of the time, the wizards we see are throwing around magic powered by their own will, not their surroundings. Harry does it a few times in order to either accomplish a secondary effect (freezing a lake by pouring the heat energy into a ball of fire) or to use it to power a spell beyond what he could do with his will alone.

The original Star Wars force is private, I think, because it doesn't just go away if the force wants to. You need to be able to use the force, but that just means you need those microsomethings in your body that allow you to manipulate an otherwise natural phenomenon.
The force I want for the true believer jedi knights in my game is supposed to be an external power, bestowed on individuals by the powers that be good (sometimes known as the white god). Of course there could be a young kinetomancer out there, thinking he is using the force, and in effect, he kind of is. But that's another kind of magic, not the one I am planning in this thread.

[Sanctaphrax]

I wouldn't use Channelling either, but not for the same reasons.

As far as I'm concerned you can just say your Channelling is externally powered and give it the debt mechanics from Sponsored Magic. I have no problem with that.

But Channelling a rather character-defining Power. In order to use it effectively, you need to invest significant resources. And you need to use it a lot. So Jedi with Channelling wouldn't use their swords so much. Which gets in the way of my image of Jedi as warrior-monk types.

Also, Channelling has some inappropriate narrative baggage. Focus items don't seem very Jedi to me, and I don't see why the Force should be impeded by running water.

[Locnil]

There is that, yes.