Gargoyle Template - Help Needed

[CrackedOzy]

I have a player who wants to play a Gargoyle (the Disney cartoon style) in an up coming game. I think this is a great idea, but I was wondering if anyone had built a template for this or had suggestions as I'm not familiar enough with the show to know what should be included.

[Quantus]

Well, from the show's standpoint there would mostly just be a big old bestial type build with lots of physical prowess, and wing based flight (though it was specifically gliding, so they needed to climb to an altitude before they could get going, rather than flapping off the ground).  And then the big ol' weakness in the fact that they turn into a moderately brittle stone during the day.  Note that its a function of time, not actual exposure to Light (as with a vampire or something) so it comes into effect even if you are under ground or something like that (which fits nicely with the DV notion of sunrise being a supernatural event).  Some cosmetic bits that were common were eyes that would glow when the gargoyle was agitated, claws that could easily grip and climb solid stone, and the ability to fold their wings over their shoulders into a cloak like position.  Designs varied widely based on the local culture, so faces could be generic horned demon style, or animalistic, wings could be bat or feathered, and at least once there was one from south america that had the lower half of a serpent instead of legs.  Wingless Gargoyles were of animal intelligence, and usually resembles large demon hounds of some kind, but had the same stone during the day bit.  At dusk their skin would crack and flake off in a violent motion (usually with them roaring and flexing dramatically) and all but the worst wounds would be healed by the process.  The show was a little inconsistent as to whether objects held or carried were also turned to stone, though I think it was more a matter of artistic interpretation since most plot-relevant objects did not. 

Some could use magic, but in that world it was a spell and ritual type of thing that seemed to be a learned skill like any other, and they never mentioned a specific racial affinity for it. 

For more about the show and a good source of tie-in elements, you might check out the fan wiki:
http://gargoyles.wikia.com/wiki/Gargoyles_%28TV_series%29

[Mrmdubois]

There was another guy who started a gargoyle thread.  You might have to dig a bit but I imagine it would be really handy for you

[InFerrumVeritas]

Here's the thread from that:
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,33701.msg1556663.html#msg1556663

[CrackedOzy]

You know, I did a search for the word gargoyle and nothing came up! Thanks guys!

[InFerrumVeritas]

You know, I did a search for the word gargoyle and nothing came up! Thanks guys!

The search sucks.  I only found it by digging through my previous posts.

[Lavecki121]

Loved that thread. I dont completely understand why that one guy had an issue with the gargoyles being out of play for 1/3 of scenes, since normally (unless you have a recovery power) the PC's would have to sleep at some point anyway.

[Mrmdubois]

He felt it was crippling to be out of commission for the day with no chance of change in schedule, but there are so many ways to work around it I think it just turned into a fixation point of objection.

[Lavecki121]

Seems like it. Because normally every PC is going to have a state of rest. The Gargoyles just seemed to have an exact set state as opposed to "well I guess I will go to bed"

But that makes it more fun, ie we have to finish this mission because the sun is comming up soon.

It could make for some great scenes where the gargoyle character turned to stone just as he would make the killing blow on the big baddie.

[Mrmdubois]

It technically is not 8 hours of rest though, depending on location or season night time can last ten to twelve hours, so you aren't active as long as most folks.  In terms of rp that practical real limitation doesn't have o matter though.

[Mr. Death]

Honestly, I don't see any problem with just setting the game primarily at night. That's when most of your ghouls and goblins are going to be out and about anyway.

[Sanctaphrax]

Fixation? He only posted three times, I wouldn't call that much of a fixation.

That aside, I'm not a huge fan of Stone Sleep. It ties consequence recovery to in-game time, which is dangerous territory. And on top of that it has vague mechanics for damage inflicted on sleeping gargoyles. And its usefulness is heavily dependent on the narrative situation, so it'll be really powerful in some games and crippling in others.

So while it's hardly an awful Power, it's far from perfect.

I'd prefer Recovery linked to Human Form or Limitation plus an Aspect. More balanced and more elegant.

PS: Stone Sleep would be pretty funny in a South Pole game.

[Quantus]

It is really just a consequence tied to the Sunrise, which is already present for any spiritual being, and a lesser one at that, since it is immobilization rather than instant death.  In the show it was often a plot point where the race against time became an issue, where the non-gargoyle characters could be forced to hide and/or protect the stone friends until dusk, where important objects might be trapped in a stone grip, etc.  One character even made a deal with the fairy Puck to instead turn into a human during the day.  In theory she would have lost the healing benefit, but she had another pre-existing deal that made her immortal, so it was moot.

Considering how many other creatures might be adversly affected by Daytime, and would thus be restricted to night-time activities, it might not matter too much.  Depending of course on what the rest of the party is and what you had planned for the arc.

[JDK002]

Fixation? He only posted three times, I wouldn't call that much of a fixation.

That aside, I'm not a huge fan of Stone Sleep. It ties consequence recovery to in-game time, which is dangerous territory. And on top of that it has vague mechanics for damage inflicted on sleeping gargoyles. And its usefulness is heavily dependent on the narrative situation, so it'll be really powerful in some games and crippling in others.

So while it's hardly an awful Power, it's far from perfect.

I'd prefer Recovery linked to Human Form or Limitation plus an Aspect. More balanced and more elegant.

PS: Stone Sleep would be pretty funny in a South Pole game.

Yeah that was me haha, and I'm still not convinced about it as a PC, mostly for the reasons above.

If a player really wanted to, I would do my best to come up with a happy compromise.  Though i admit my opinion is colored by my own game and players.  We have had plenty of all night sessions where only 2 or 3 hours of game time have passed.  If these happen to be during the day, then that one player is just out the entire session or I have to rush the other players through daytime scenes.  Which is not something I'm willing to do for of 1 of my 4 PC's.

I think my view on it also stems from an issue I've seen and talked about with other GM's many times.  When a player comes up with an interesting idea, but doesn't stop to really ask themselves "Will this character actually be fun to play as for months or even years?"

I ran into this problem when I first started going through character creation for DFRPG.  A potential player repeatedly gave ideas for his character that would constantly make it difficult to interact with the character in multiple ways, and by extension the player himself.  I tried to come up with compromises, but he wasn't willing to bend.  He ended up not playing.

I think it's also important for players to also ask themselves "will this character hinder or force the GM and other players to play a certain way to accomidate my character?"

[Quantus]

Yeah that was me haha, and I'm still not convinced about it as a PC, mostly for the reasons above.

If a player really wanted to, I would do my best to come up with a happy compromise.  Though i admit my opinion is colored by my own game and players.  We have had plenty of all night sessions where only 2 or 3 hours of game time have passed.  If these happen to be during the day, then that one player is just out the entire session or I have to rush the other players through daytime scenes.  Which is not something I'm willing to do for of 1 of my 4 PC's.

I think my view on it also stems from an issue I've seen and talked about with other GM's many times.  When a player comes up with an interesting idea, but doesn't stop to really ask themselves "Will this character actually be fun to play as for months or even years?"

I ran into this problem when I first started going through character creation for DFRPG.  A potential player repeatedly gave ideas for his character that would constantly make it difficult to interact with the character in multiple ways, and by extension the player himself.  I tried to come up with compromises, but he wasn't willing to bend.  He ended up not playing.

I think it's also important for players to also ask themselves "will this character hinder or force the GM and other players to play a certain way to accomidate my character?"

True.  Ive dealt with many of those issues as well.  The flip side of some, especially the last, is if it is not so much forcing them to do something s it is fitting nicely into existing plans.  In this case and in the DFverse, there are just so many things that are at least as restricted when it comes to daytime activities that it may not be nearly as limiting as it would be in other circumstances.  If the table also has spirits or vampires or some such, then the characters that can go abroad in daylight might actually be the minority.  As you say, it all depends on how the idea balances with the GM plans and the rest of the party.