Author Topic: How Does a Limiting High Concept "Help" with Power Refresh Costs  (Read 2448 times)

Offline furashgf

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The core book makes it clear that your powers should derive from your high-concept, allowing you to leverage the high concept aspect to make your power work better (or worse, for a fate point or something) in a specific scene. For example, if your aspect was “Best Death Magic Wizard” (not a great example), then you could get bonuses for casting death magic spells but get compelled to look into dangerous books of death magic.

So, the kindly people here proposed that for my characters demonic hand (think a smaller Hellboy “Fist of Doom” connected to Giles from Buffy the Vampire Slayer). One ability I would like it to have is that it’s great at gripping, crushing, but that’s it. So, I can hang from a pipe indefinitely, or crush someone’s handgun, but I can’t do most things you can do with supernatural strength - punch people very hard, lift up cars, throw things further and harder. However, if you received your supernatural strength, say, from some other high concept (instead of “Weilder of the Demonic Left Hand,” it just might be plain old supernatural strength you picked because you’re a changeling or something.

Here’s where my confusion comes in. The group is very solid on the idea that BOTH of the above would cost [-2] refresh. In a traditional game, this would be handled by making some kind of limit on the strength, so that maybe it costs only -1 or something. Here, the limit is the high concept - strength comes from the hand not from my overall “supernaturalness.” So, I appear to be spending the same amount as the “other guy” for a much less effective power. This only bothers me because I want my character to be as close to my concept as possible, and as effective as possible (when called for), and have as much agency, but I’ve spent a resource and have less agency than others who spent the resource. I could have used, say, an extra -1 refresh for another power. This applies to all my other abilities I want to put into the hand.

I’m not clear on how the restricton of my high concept on my supernatural strength evens anything out. I believe fate points are given when you’re compelled, or someone tags you (I think the first tag is free or something). So, the benefit would be that I could more easily get additional fate points then “the other guy,” but I don’t get it. Other guy picks up and throws a table - no problem, he can do it. I can’t. Do I get a fate point every time I could use supernatural strength but can’t because of my high concept? Do I declare at the start of every physical combat that I’m going to strike a crushing blow with my hand, and then get a fate point because I can’t do that?

I think the posters are right, but I just have a misunderstanding of something.

Offline UmbraLux

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Re: How Does a Limiting High Concept "Help" with Power Refresh Costs
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2012, 10:50:42 PM »
Do I get a fate point every time I could use supernatural strength but can’t because of my high concept?
Essentially, yes.  It's a compel, probably a self compel since you're setting it up that way.  I'd limit it to once per scene in most cases but that may be dependent on the table.
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Offline wyvern

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Re: How Does a Limiting High Concept "Help" with Power Refresh Costs
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2012, 10:59:46 PM »
In this case, given the extreme limitations involved - you're missing most of the benefits of Inhuman Strength* - I'd suggest simply not taking the power, and having an extra fate point or two available to invoke your high concept for appropriate bonuses.

* I assume it is inhuman you're talking about, since that's the one that costs -2 refresh normally.  Supernatural strength normally costs -4; if your party is letting you have it for -2, that's already plenty of discount, in my not-so-humble opinion.

Offline Lamech

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Re: How Does a Limiting High Concept "Help" with Power Refresh Costs
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2012, 11:41:14 PM »
So, the benefit would be that I could more easily get additional fate points then “the other guy,” but I don’t get it. Other guy picks up and throws a table - no problem, he can do it. I can’t. Do I get a fate point every time I could use supernatural strength but can’t because of my high concept? Do I declare at the start of every physical combat that I’m going to strike a crushing blow with my hand, and then get a fate point because I can’t do that?
Basically. Yes, you will get an awful lot of fate points. Probably one every combat scene. Its totally worth the two refresh, just for that.

Offline furashgf

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Re: How Does a Limiting High Concept "Help" with Power Refresh Costs
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2012, 11:51:11 PM »
Okay, so I do get it (thanks!), it just seems bizzare. I was using the inhuman strength, hence the -2 instead of -4. None of the posters thought it was kosher to reduce the refresh of the power due to its limits. Wow - so if you take a bunch of powers that are significantly gimped, you get a low refresh but you can get tons of fate points since you can always advocate that you could have used such and such power but can't because of the high concept. It seems simpler that we would just modify it with a less expensive refresh cost, rather than having me endlessly make up things. The latter doesn't even reflect anything the character would be processing - he knows his hand can't lift up a car, so he doesn't bother.

Offline Tedronai

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Re: How Does a Limiting High Concept "Help" with Power Refresh Costs
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2012, 12:10:26 AM »
Compels are often things that the character wouldn't necessarily know about.  FP mechanics in general are a meta-game activity (aspects reflect in-game truths, but only matter when the out-of-game FP or tag is spent).
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Offline ways and means

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Re: How Does a Limiting High Concept "Help" with Power Refresh Costs
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2012, 12:18:24 AM »
Iron Grip [-2]
Add +2 to your might when grappling an opponent.
Add +4 to your athletics/might when climbing or hanging to something.
Every night has its day.
Even forever must come to an end....
I think.

Offline Becq

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Re: How Does a Limiting High Concept "Help" with Power Refresh Costs
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2012, 12:42:38 AM »
If you want gripping strength only, that seems like enough of a difference to warrant a different power.  The suggestion ways and means posted above works.  Or you could just make it a -1 power that takes the relevant half of Inhuman Strength.  So include the "Superior Strength" (only for grabbing/holding) and "Bruising Strength" sections of Inhuman Strength, and leave off the "Improved Lifting" and "Hammer Blows" parts.  This split looks to me like it results in your power being fairly priced at -1.

Regarding the full version of the power + compel option, I'd like to point out that it only counts as a compel if it causes your character trouble (relative to not being subject to the compel).  So, for example, if you were suddenly inclined to show off by hurling a baseball three city blocks but couldn't because of your high concept, this really doesn't cause trouble for you (at least in my mind, this is an inconvenience at most).  If your girlfriend was trapped under a collapsed beam in a burning building and you wanted to lift the beam off her but couldn't, this would absolutely qualify (though I think your girlfriend would probably want you to buy off the compel and manage to use your hand to lever it off her somehow despite the difficulty...)

Offline furashgf

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Re: How Does a Limiting High Concept "Help" with Power Refresh Costs
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2012, 01:35:22 AM »
I believe you're right, so if I pay full price and can only get a FP when it's truly a problem, then I've got a guy with the refresh rate of a sorcerer and the ability to affect the story not at all. I think this part of the game must be broken - I think the original intent was that your high concept limit your powers in reasonable ways - e.g. A scion of a powerful deamon is less powerful on holy ground but gains a fate point for his trouble, not create gimped characters who are enticed to abuse aspects.