Author Topic: Harry and chaos (Spoilers plus a theory)  (Read 8446 times)

Offline Tesla

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 107
    • View Profile
Harry and chaos (Spoilers plus a theory)
« on: June 29, 2011, 06:43:19 PM »
I've had this idea running about in my head lately that Harry is attuned to chaos and that is part what gives him his Outsiderbane abilities. You can't really command something in the DV without having an understanding of its nature. Much of what Harry has done has lead to more chaos than stability. His victories often just lead to more and greater chaos. He has the strongest (worst) 'murphyonic' filed of any wizard he has ever heard of, which strikes me as an effect of his chaotic nature. He has issues with controlling evocations even with proper Foci. There is a reason he causes so much property damage.

I am thinking that many of the powers out there are using his affinity for chaos to prepare the way so to speak. I think it might have been a part of the plan that Maggie Sr had worked out with Lord Raith.

Looking at the books it is clear that something/someone is trying to create more and more chaos and that they are putting Harry in the center of it for a reason (besides him being the protagonist of course :P):

- SF someone tries to undermine Marcone. Who while not a really 'good' guy, he IS a stabilizing influence.  And Harry makes an enemy of Bianca.

-FM someone gives the belts to the FBI once again Marcone was a target. Arguably converting agents of law and order into ones of chaos.

-GP someone is defiantly setting the table for the future. Harry starts the war with the RCVamps because of the events that unfold. Plus it helps set up events in BR. 

-SK has elemental chaos in the works that ends up creating an imbalance between Summer and Winter. And sets up Harry to become the WK.

-DM it is out and out stated that the goal was to create a mini-pocolypse. Which while averted still lead to the loss of one of the Knights and to Harry taking up a Coin.

-BR lead to Harry giving the Word of Kemmler to Mavra and a major shake-up in the White Court. It also lead to the death of Ortega which has no small effect on future events.

-DB Here the Wardens are all but wiped out, Luccio loses her body which costs her ability and sets up future events, Mavra gets the Word of Kemmler, Harry voluntarily uses Hellfire and the help of the Fallen.

-PG This one is one of the few books that don't have a major increase in chaos or set up for greater future chaos at the end that I can think of. However, it does put Harry on the hook for Molly, sets up WK, and gives Harry and Morgan the Summer Court pins/favors.

-WK Has the culling and the death of numerous White Court higher-ups, the inclusion of Marcone as a signatory of the Accords, and the return of Cowl.

-SF Lots of things in this one as well, Michael getting lamed, the fracturing of the Denarians, Ivy getting abused, one of the Denarius dispersing, Marcone getting a job offer from Nic, and the introduction of Demonreach.

-TC Death of Morgan, death of several WC members, appointment of Christos to the SC, lots of fear created in the Wardens, Harry loses Lucio, the grey council is introduced, Thomas is abused, Harry claims DR as his Sanctum, Harry 'see's Shagnasty and almost loses it, and Kirby dies.

-C This entire book was about chaos and IMO had the most chaotic ending of any of them.

So what I am thinking, is that the BC endgame doesn't require Harry to lose, but rather is set up in such a way that his victories contribute to a growing amount of chaos, similar to the whose barb wire spell preparing the way for the Dark Hollow. Only on a much greater scale. They want Harry on their 'team,' but are clever enough to use his ability to 'understand/create chaos' without his 'consent.'


Offline Rasins

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 12188
  • Aid the younger and weaker.
    • View Profile
Re: Harry and chaos (Spoilers plus a theory)
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2011, 06:52:29 PM »
I can see how you can come to this conclusion, but consider what would have happend if any of the events had suceeded?  How would that have changed subsequent events? 

What would have happened had Marcone been killed in SF or FM?

I think you may have gotten it backwards.  Harry keeps stopping bigger and bigger plans, but is that a function of not suceeding in previous attempts, or of Harry just getting more and more involved?
At times I wish I had a clone, but then I realize, I could never live with that a-hole.

DV Rasins 2006 BK+++ RP++ JB++++ TH++++ WG+(+?) CL SW++ BC- MC---

Offline Tesla

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 107
    • View Profile
Re: Harry and chaos (Spoilers plus a theory)
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2011, 06:59:51 PM »
Well Marcone getting killed is pretty much out and out stated as something that would lead to gang warfare, so I would guess that is the most likely outcome :) In SF, not only is Marcone a target, but the drug 3E is madness inducing. My best guess is that we are dealing with a Cthulu type entity that feeds off chaos and insanity.

We know Harry was brought about as part of a plan. They had to have a reason for wanting an Outsiderbane. It just makes sense to me that part of that is an innate affinity for chaos/madness.

Offline Lash Dresden

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 4115
  • Loneliness or solitude?
    • View Profile
Re: Harry and chaos (Spoilers plus a theory)
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2011, 07:53:37 PM »
Quote
-DM it is out and out stated that the goal was to create a mini-pocolypse. Which while averted still lead to the loss of one of the Knights and to Harry taking up a Coin.
 

Nitpick:  Harry never took up the coin.  He touched it and ended up with a shadow of the fallen in his head, but "taking up the coin" would have entailed joining up with the denarians and letting Lasciel (sp?) out to play, and he never did that.
Everyone on this earth wants to feel like they matter.

Offline Rasins

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 12188
  • Aid the younger and weaker.
    • View Profile
Re: Harry and chaos (Spoilers plus a theory)
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2011, 07:56:08 PM »
Again, I don't disagree with you that if Marcone was killed gang warfare would ensue.  I'm just not convinced that someone did all this to get Harry involved.  He was a young Wizard at the begining, a non-player.  Now he's caught up in things and making a name for himself, but I don't know about using him in any long term plans.
At times I wish I had a clone, but then I realize, I could never live with that a-hole.

DV Rasins 2006 BK+++ RP++ JB++++ TH++++ WG+(+?) CL SW++ BC- MC---

Offline kazimmoinuddin

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 4366
    • View Profile
Re: Harry and chaos (Spoilers plus a theory)
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2011, 03:49:48 AM »
its like with the darkhollow ritual, he needed to be covered with a cloak of necromatic energies, for him to act against them he has to carry a piece of outsider energies. I wonder that that mean he could more easily mimic other outsider abilities.
k moinuddin

Offline Aminar

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1386
    • View Profile
Re: Harry and chaos (Spoilers plus a theory)
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2011, 04:16:12 AM »
its like with the darkhollow ritual, he needed to be covered with a cloak of necromatic energies, for him to act against them he has to carry a piece of outsider energies. I wonder that that mean he could more easily mimic other outsider abilities.
I dunno about outsider energy.  That is anti-life.  Necromancy is very much the opposite of anti-life.  It is the magic of life, hence the "True Magic" label.  In fact just about every type of magic except spirit in the Dresden verse has an opposite.  We have Earth/Air Fire/Water Soul/Hellfire Necromancy is both sides of the coin of Life/Death.  That could leave either Necromancy or Outisder as the opposite to Spirit.  If you look at Spirit as humanity then the outsiders are very much anti-humanity.  That said I see Outsiders more as the opposite to ALL magic because magic is life force(as stated by Harry).

Hmmm, rambling posts are fun...