Author Topic: Building Challenging Encounters  (Read 1616 times)

Offline Didymus

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Building Challenging Encounters
« on: June 10, 2011, 04:26:49 AM »
My family loves Dresden and RPG.  Our Background is D&D.  I have the DF books and the two prefab adventures.  They are all great, but I must admit it is hard for me to fully understand the system by merely reading the books.  I am listening to podcasts and reading posts on this site to help that deficiency.  I have learned a lot from this site.  Still, I need some assistance.  I hope you can help me with my campaign planning.  

We have made a city - and had a great time doing it.  We made characters - and had a great time doing it.  I have been working to fill out the city and various scene hooks - and I am having a great time doing it.  But . . .

I am having trouble determining the strength of the forces whom I should pit against the PC's.  I want to have some "encounter groups" ready for the PC's as they move around the city.  I know this game involves potential encounters with creatures or groups too strong for the PC's to fight - great role playing opportunities - I get that and I am fine with it.  But for the encounters that I want to be balanced so as to challenge the Party without overwhelming it in a physical fight, I need some guidance.  Is there a formula using refresh and party number or what?

I see one concept is to create a set of encounters against which the PC's are pitted in rapid succession, none of which alone is challenging but after the damage picked up in the first several scrapes, it adds up to difficulty by scene three.  This seems to be the plan in Neutral Ground - and extra mobs are available if the group is still hail and hardy by the encounter with the "final boss" of the story.  This flexibility to adjust the final fight is cool - but it give me the idea even the designers are really not sure how much to throw against a group to make a challenging encounter.  [I know, I know, they have to make it flexible because they do not know the level of play or even the number of PC's who will be playing.  I get it.]  (I love the flexibility to change the final outcome and change the final boss depending on the story - very clever.)  

But I do not want every adventure to require a forced multi-scene winnowing of the group's stress and consequences with a predictable final fight with a "boss" - with minions I adjust depending on the group's surviving power level.  To use that system each time would be too formulaic.  

I have five players at the "up to our ankles" game difficulty - six refresh each.  

I want to be able to pull a group together that will challenge but not overpower the Party in a single scene fight.  The only guess I have right now is to construct a group of opponent creatures/NPCs in about the same number as the PC's and with the same approximate power level.  But that is a pretty vague concept and I suspect a few power points either way may make a big difference.  Sigh . . .

Help me Obi Wan Post Kobe - you are my only hope.  


Edit - OK I spent more time on the forum and found a reference to a portion of the book I had managed to skip when I gleefully read through various sections of both - skipping around rather than reading both through.  The answer was on Your Story "Scaling the Opposition,  p. 331.  I messed up by flailing about looking through the index for words like "encounter" - too much D&D in my past.  Sorry for wasted post. 
« Last Edit: June 10, 2011, 05:05:14 AM by Didymus »

Offline Todjaeger

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Re: Building Challenging Encounters
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2011, 05:07:45 AM »
The first thing which comes to mind is more in the nature of a question.  Are you asking about opposition for fight scenes?  Or just opposition in general?

I ask because depending on how the game is being run, and the style of players you have, you can have an entire session without a single fight 'scene'.

If you're just looking to find out how to arrange things for an actual fight vs. the characters, then someone take a contract out on one/all the players.  An unsuspecting PC, being sighted in by a skilled marksman, is going to rapidly start going through consequences.  Particularly if being shot at from a klick away with something big like an M82 Barret 0.50cal/12.7 mm anti-material rifle.  Done properly, this situation would trigger an automatic minimum of a Minor Consequence...  PC defence of Mediocre (+0) due to being taken by surprise, the sniper/marksman/assassin/whatever with Guns of Great (+4), having prepared and gotten the free tag of the aspect "In My Sights," is basically guaranteed a minimum of 2 shifts of success on a to hit roll, plus an M82 would be considered either a Weapon: 3 or Weapon: 4, so the hit would do 5-6 boxes of stress, at a mimimum.

In the short story Warrior, Harry gets shot by one, while wearing his enchanted trench coat and ends up taking a least a minor consequence.  And that was all before he really had a good idea of who his opponent was.

In point of fact, that could be used as the prelude to a new story arc, or the start of an adventure.  Who took shots/is taking shots at the party, and why?  And how do we find them/stop them?

Or as an alternative in fights, have the attackers use methods of attack which the players can't/don't think to defend against.  Again the novels are a good resource.  How well can/would the players be able to defend themselves against an improvised flamethrower?  Especially one wielded by a human...

Hope this is helpful.
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Offline Michael Sandy

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Re: Building Challenging Encounters
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2011, 06:25:15 AM »
If you just want it as an encounter, then either have it be a slightly more powerful creature or group that is at some disadvantage, or a less powerful individual or group that has some advantage.

For example, if it is more powerful, the players may have the advantage of knowing ahead of time what their opponent is, or its objective.  If it is less powerful, then the players might have to approach where their opponents have sentries, or have the aspect "home ground" that they can tag.

You can also have a group whose objective is going to be primarily to get away, rather than fight it out.

For example:
Dangerous beastie has come out of the nevernever, where the Veil is thin, party comes across or is called to the site of one of the attacks, gets either a thaumaturgical link to track, or a scent trail a were- or changeling can track.  Party can try to set up bait of some sort, or trail directly.  Whoever can keep up with it might not be able to take it out, but perhaps they can kite it away from people, and to a kill zone.

A followup might be to try to find the hole it came through and seal it.

Think about what skill or aspect is drawing the players in.

Do the players have high Contacts skill?  Maybe the police call them in for a consult.  Or the occult bookseller reports some really creepy buyers.  The clued in barista notices some customers with no auras, or distorted ones.  So the initial encounter may involve just drinking some coffee, observing and trying not to be observed.

Do the players have thaumaturgy or tracking skills?  Have them follow something from an incident using those abilities.

Or are the players brought their by Fate, pushed by some sponsor or Faith ability?  Do the players actively patrol, looking for trolls, or Red Court?

Some of the challenging encounters could be with individuals or entities that could be allies.  There could be something else hunting or tracking what the players are interested in.  Some clued in individual or group that investigates bizarre murders that the police can't handle.  Such a group could be an ally or obstacle.

There could be challenging encounters with groups or entities that could be co-belligerents.  Not allies, because of their nature or agenda, but at least on some battlefields they would be fighting the same things.  Maybe the White Court Vampire is staking out the museum because he knows a particular warlock is interested in a very nasty item that is there.  Or maybe the warlock the party is hunting offers to help versus an imminent demon invasion sponsored by his former associates, if the party is willing to give him a head start to leave town afterward.

Some of the challenging encounters could be with people the group would nominally protect, but are kind of difficult.

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Building Challenging Encounters
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2011, 11:20:51 PM »
I wouldn't put too much faith in the "Scaling The Opposition" guidelines.

I prefer to simulate the combat in advance when creating fights. Sounds fancy, but really I just compare numbers and guess at how the first few rounds will go.

Offline Taran

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Re: Building Challenging Encounters
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2011, 11:39:15 PM »
I wouldn't put too much faith in the "Scaling The Opposition" guidelines.


That worries me somewhat.  I'm trying to build a "challenging" encounter (and it's my first time doing so as a GM), and after looking at the numbers (*1.5 the refresh in supernatural powers of the group), I'm a little worried how things will go.  How "out of sync" are the "Scaling The Opposition" rules?

I was tempted to post my own similar thread on these boards(with the encounter details), but I'm worried my players will come across it by accident.

My only reassurance, I guess, is the concession rules - in case things go really bad.

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Building Challenging Encounters
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2011, 11:46:33 PM »
I don't really know how well they work, since I don't use them.

Anyway, I wouldn't worry too much about your players. Fate Points make a terrific cushion, and maneuver stacking can destroy very powerful opponents. My players just took down a 38-refresh monster with relative ease by stacking a bunch of aspects for the evoker to tag.

Although they have about 85 points of spent refresh between them, so maybe that's not so impressive.