Author Topic: Questions on Denarians....  (Read 2692 times)

Offline Vars

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Questions on Denarians....
« on: February 08, 2011, 11:34:55 PM »
I am playing in a game set in post Katrina New Orleans. One of our pc's is heavily linked to the Order of the Blackened Denarius and as such we have run into them finally in the game. Problem is, they have taken over one of the other PC's mothers...

That being said I am in a bit of a tight spot. We need to beat the denarian but we don't want to kill the host. Thought on the subject?
I'll tell you right now I'm the WC Wizard of the group and I'm leaning towards a bit of subterfuge to get the job done. I'm wondering if one of those triple ringed circles might hold a fallen angel since in one of the books it is said that these can be used for an archangel. If so they should work on a fallen angel right? Anyway, I'm thinking we could reason with the host/angel with the terms "surrender the host or when we kill her we drop you into a volcano/space/unreachable spot and let you rot for eternity where humans more than likely won't get to you" and "give up the coin so we don't have to kill you". Remember we don't want the host dead but I don't see another forcefull enough threat than death to get them to part. If you have any clues on the situation please post so I can think on your lines.

*as a side not, do you guys think that a circle could be fashioned to take the being held within and funnel all energy used to try and escape towards the next spell the warder casts?

Offline MijRai

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Re: Questions on Denarians....
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2011, 11:39:28 PM »
Pull a 'Cassius' and make her give up the coin. Joint destruction is not necessary.
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Offline bibliophile20

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Re: Questions on Denarians....
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2011, 11:39:40 PM »
What has the coin been promising the mother?  Remember, you need to target the mother, not the fallen angel; no matter how bad its gotten, the host can always choose to give up their coin.  Convince her why she should give it up.  

However, that being said, a greater circle to hold the denarian combat form in one place while said social combat is going on... probably a good idea.  
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Offline Brackenfur

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Re: Questions on Denarians....
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2011, 02:05:15 PM »
It's also important to note how she carries the coin. If you attempted to take it from her by force would you need a surgeon? Because Harry has knocked some of the denarians out and lifted the coin. And if you have a less scrupled character the method with Cassius and the bat could go over well too. Though you probably wouldn't want the child there. Either way though, If your insincere about your death threat chances are the denarian can figure it out and then your kinda stuck. The circle sounds like a really good idea, it may be cool for the wizard and the child of the denarian to go through his/her family's secrets to get articles to better bind the circle with. (aspects for free tagging). But man this is a tough situation, props to your GM for it!

Offline Kommisar

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Re: Questions on Denarians....
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2011, 11:10:19 PM »
Build the Ward/Circle.  You'll need a Block against Movement.  Block against Attack.  Block against Magic?  Minimum.

Now, you just have to decide how much complexity/juice to throw into it.  There be the tricky part as you will not know 100% if it is enough until it is ripping through it.  And a trapped Denarian is going to be able/willing to drop a lot of Fate Points, tag some good aspects and even pull off some good maneuvers to break out.

Offline jybil178

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Re: Questions on Denarians....
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2011, 12:16:29 PM »
pg. 297,
Faerie-Trapping Spell
This is a relatively straightforward containment
spell—the trick is to first lure the target into
your containment construct, and then convince
it to help you once it’s trapped.
Type: Thaumaturgy, binding
Complexity: It’s hard to imagine a pixie
breaking through a containment of strength
4, so aiming there is probably safe.
Duration: About one scene
Effect: The pixie is trapped in the containment
circle until the spell ends or the caster
dismisses the effect.
Variations: Add a shift or two of power to
increase the duration. You can contain
stronger creatures in a similar way, but you’ll
probably want to crank up the power.
Notes: Note that this spell simply contains the
pixie; luring it into the containment construct
to begin with might require a couple of Lore
and/or Deceit checks (a good deep dish pizza
is surprisingly good bait), and convincing it
to do as it’s asked once it’s contained might
require a social or mental conflict. (Note that
a contained pixie might have a taggable aspect
like Trapped in the Circle…)


Good place to start at least.  The complexity though, would Obviously need to be MUCH higher, hehe...  I'm not sure if increasing the strength of the trap would also include turning it into a Triple Circles or not...  Plus, only the setting, not the system goes into different forms of Circles doing different things, IE a Circle to keep out the physical, a Circle to keep out the Spiritual...  And I don't know if they much go over that third one anywhere but besides in that particular book.  Maybe pg. 277, getting selective with the conditions would be a good way to go about it, basically adding 6 (depending on how you look at it) to the complexity in order to get a Triple Ringed Circle.  Or you could ignore it entirely as a complexity issue, and simply have it more for flavor.

Now after you decide how you WANT to do it, there are three GLARINGLY big problems to come, not even including your attempt to talk the PC's mother into giving up the Coin...

First, is how strong the Ward/Trap would need to be, as far as strength wise.  Absolute MINIMUM would be a block of 10, which would assume nothing more than a Fists of +4 and a minimum of Inhuman Strength for another +2..  And that is so dangerous, as to be nearly Suicidal.  I'd go for at LEAST a 20.. IF, that is, my character had an inkling of what he was really up against...  But if the Denarian can use magic, even that might not be safe.

Second, your still not done with the ward.  You also have to account in for duration as well.  If you don't, the thing won't last much more than a few hours, or at best, till Sunrise.  And the Denarian WILL know that.  It will be able to tell if you designed the Circle to last a while, or if it'll be gone in a few hours easily, and will then bargain, plan or whatever accordingly.  And as long as your considering Time with a capital T, how long will the players have until those that gave her the Coin will come looking for her and the characters?  Couldn't it just be part of the plan that this Denarian allowed itself to be caught, just to give the other Denarians a better chance to surround the players?  Or that it was an accident, and she knows if she waits long enough, her fellow Denarians will come looking for her.  The Trap is a two way street.  She can't get out, but nothing can get in either, without completely breaking the Circle.  Duration and Time are Critical factors, unless, you know...  The Denarians are no longer nearby anymore, and long gone, and shes the only one left, without any backup or anything...  I guess that could happen ;)

Third...  Its a Denarian, a creature that has thousands upon thousands of years of experience, knowledge beyond your wildest imagination, beyond your most wildest dreams, more powerful than most likely anything any of the players have ever come up against ...  And your trying to trap it?  Think on that for a moment...  A creature, like a little Pixie is one thing.  The power needed to create the circle would be hardly anything at all....  Barely noticeable to all but the most observant, and those who were actually looking for it.  But the power necessary to trap the Denarian, would also be one of its greatest weaknesses.  It would make it very difficult to hide, even to just a normal practitioner, much less the fully developed senses of a Fallen Angel.  A veil, and a very good one at that, would be most needed to aid in the Denarians capture, and even then...  Normally, a veil is merely meant to prevent the sense of sight from seeing something.  Sometimes it also goes deep enough to include other senses as well.  Or the Veil may be intended to be a deterrent, making the target not even notice the area.  But that would be a bad idea, because it would most likely make your target ignore the trap completely.  You'd need a Veil that not only managed to hide the visible indications of a Trap in place, but also somehow managed to hide the sense of powerful magic that went with the circle, something I'm not entirely sure is even possible.  Whats worse, if the creature has access to the Sight, no Veil could ever keep her from noticing it.  This would probably be something the group would have to research into.

But then again, there is also the factor of how powerful the Denarians are in your setting.  I may be HIGHLY overestimating their capacity, so you may not need to go quite as far as I've suggested.  But if they are, then these are some decent guidelines and something of a start at least, hehe...

Hope it helps.
my 2 cents

Offline Wordmaker

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Re: Questions on Denarians....
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2011, 01:20:46 PM »
Odds are threatening the Denarian with something like imprisonment or even being cast away somewhere seemingly unreachable won't be too effective unless that would directly threaten a plan the Denarian already has in place.

The Denarians are ancient and patient beings, and if being lost inside a volcano or beneath the Earth was a true threat to them, the Church would do that instead of holding the coins in a guarded location. I imagine the coins like The One Ring. They are always trying to find a new host, and fate has a way of subtly ensuring that they find that, unless the coins are being actively guarded. Toss one into a volcano, then you can't be certain that in five, fifty, even a hundred years later the coin won't be freed in an eruption, unharmed, and be found by someone. The Denarians are patient. They can wait.

The key is the host. Save the mother, and she'll free herself. If she's just been duped or overpowered into accepting the coin, like Sanya or one of Magog's hosts, then she can still be saved.

That said, if she's like Nicodemus, and is in league with her Denarian, then she may be past saving. It's a possibility you should consider, because she could well be bluffing if her child thinks she's a prisoner of the coin.

Offline graftonio

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Re: Questions on Denarians....
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2011, 08:34:55 AM »
Pull a 'Cassius' and make her give up the coin. Joint destruction is not necessary.

Just a note but Cassius gave up the coin to avoid being sliced and diced by the 2 Knights. Harry smashed his knee caps after that as a parting gift not to make him give up the coin.