Author Topic: Question on Combat  (Read 2614 times)

Offline LepRecon

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Question on Combat
« on: January 31, 2011, 12:22:29 PM »
Hi all

I have run one mini campaign and 2/3 COn games of Dresden to great effect and with much enjoyment.  I tend to gloss over combat a bit as it the story elements we have fun with in our group.  I will be starting a second campaing soon and I know we have a player who will combat focussed so I wanted to make sure I had a better handle so just setting up some simple questions maybe someone can answer.

NPC and PLAYER One in combat.

the NPC has 3 physical stress

1. In round 1 the player manages to hit with his knife.  The difference is 2 and so I cross of stress box 2.

2. In round 2 the player hits with a difference of 2 again.  Do you cross out stress box 1 or 3?

3. If you have stress box 1 and 2 crossed out and I hit with a differnece of 1 do you cross off box 3 or no box?

4. In my last game I had someone who scored a difference of +6.  Do you do extra for overdoing the difference?

Any help appreciated.

LepRecon

Offline BumblingBear

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Re: Question on Combat
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2011, 12:31:54 PM »
Hi all

I have run one mini campaign and 2/3 COn games of Dresden to great effect and with much enjoyment.  I tend to gloss over combat a bit as it the story elements we have fun with in our group.  I will be starting a second campaing soon and I know we have a player who will combat focussed so I wanted to make sure I had a better handle so just setting up some simple questions maybe someone can answer.

NPC and PLAYER One in combat.

the NPC has 3 physical stress

1. In round 1 the player manages to hit with his knife.  The difference is 2 and so I cross of stress box 2.
Did you include the weapon rating of the knife?

Quote
2. In round 2 the player hits with a difference of 2 again.  Do you cross out stress box 1 or 3?
As you described it, 3 would be crossed out.

Quote
3. If you have stress box 1 and 2 crossed out and I hit with a differnece of 1 do you cross off box 3 or no box?
Box 3

Quote
4. In my last game I had someone who scored a difference of +6.  Do you do extra for overdoing the difference?
I don't think I understand.

Ok, if your PC has 3 stress boxes and gets hit for 6 stress (like say... 4 stress attack difference and 2 weapon for a sword, or 6 stress difference for a bare hand)

a minor consequence nixes 2 stress
a moderate consequence nixes 4 stress

Your PC has several choices.

1.They can invest 1 fate point in their defense roll (upping it by 2).  This would make the difference 4.  They could then take a minor consequence bringing it down to 2 and then just cross out their 2 box.

2. They can spend more than 1 fate point (if they've got them and have relevant aspects to tag) increasing their defense roll by 4 or 6 respectively.  I don't know if a weapon was involved in the stress of the attack or not - need more information to be more specific here.

3.  They could take a moderate consequence or two mild consequences (if they have an extra mild consequence) and then cross out the 2 box.  The moderate would probably be better to take first since that is only one aspect an enemy could tag.

4.  They could be "taken out."

I hope that helps



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Any help appreciated.

LepRecon

No prob
Myself: If I were in her(Murphy's) position, I would have studied my ass off on the supernatural and rigged up special weapons to deal with them.  Murphy on the other hand just plans to overpower bad guys with the angst of her short woman's syndrome and blame all resulting failures on Harry.

Offline LepRecon

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Re: Question on Combat
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2011, 12:51:59 PM »
Hi oops maybe I needed more detail.

We can add knife etc and say the difference is positive 2 or whatever and we know about taking consqeunces.

The first 3 answers were as I thought so basically if you get hit you loose one stress box and it doesnt matter which one.

They grey area is I hit you with whatever and the difference is huge like +7 does that mean the NPC takes 7 points of stress?  Does it mean you take one point of stress damage?  Does he have to use consequences to survive?  What should he take if you do +7 difference and he has 3 stress boxes to use.  Does he still just loose one or does more happen.  I understand how the consequences work.

For an example we had a PC get +9 on a gun shot against my minor big bad guy and with roles I got +2.  My guy was a Pure Mortal so the was a +7 difference and I had my full 3 stress box.  It seemed a pain to have him one shotted but 1 point of stress damage seemed little.  Was unsure.  Thanks for the answers to the other 3 they were as I expected.

Offline bitterpill

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Re: Question on Combat
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2011, 01:07:08 PM »
In the example if a pc get a +9 to his gun roll against a villan who rolled +2 the damage would be 7 stress plus the Weapon score ( Pistol +2, Rifle +3) which would most likly be 9 stress boxes, if the NPC is not getting concequences then he is taken out as all of his 3 stress boxes are blown, if the NPC does get concequences then your best option is to give him a Moderate and Severe concequence which would reduce the stress he takes by 10 which would mean he would have all his stress boxes remaining.    
« Last Edit: January 31, 2011, 01:09:24 PM by bitterpill »
"Apathetic bloody planet, I've no sympathy at all"  Vogon Captain

Offline BumblingBear

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Re: Question on Combat
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2011, 01:09:22 PM »

They grey area is I hit you with whatever and the difference is huge like +7 does that mean the NPC takes 7 points of stress?  Does it mean you take one point of stress damage?  Does he have to use consequences to survive?  What should he take if you do +7 difference and he has 3 stress boxes to use.  Does he still just loose one or does more happen.  I understand how the consequences work.

For an example we had a PC get +9 on a gun shot against my minor big bad guy and with roles I got +2.  My guy was a Pure Mortal so the was a +7 difference and I had my full 3 stress box.  It seemed a pain to have him one shotted but 1 point of stress damage seemed little.  Was unsure.  Thanks for the answers to the other 3 they were as I expected.

Ok using your example.

Your guy - pure mortal - 3 stress box.  We will call him Mike.
PC - gunman - we will call him Ian.

Ian:  Rolls a +7 attack with a +2 weapon (pistol)
Mike:  Rolls athletics to dodge.  Gets a 2.  (ouch)
Mike:  Facing a 7 stress hit (5 stess from attack (7-2) + the weapon damage)
Mike:  Takes a moderate consequence of (grazed arm) (-4 stress)
--3 stress remaining in the attack--
Mike:  Checks his "3" physical stress box.


Does that help?
Myself: If I were in her(Murphy's) position, I would have studied my ass off on the supernatural and rigged up special weapons to deal with them.  Murphy on the other hand just plans to overpower bad guys with the angst of her short woman's syndrome and blame all resulting failures on Harry.

Offline bitterpill

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Re: Question on Combat
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2011, 01:18:00 PM »
In thought you got taken out if you use up all your stress boxes even if you still have concequences remaining so his villan would have to take another minor concequence to reduce the damage to 1 in the example you use. 
"Apathetic bloody planet, I've no sympathy at all"  Vogon Captain

Offline BumblingBear

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Re: Question on Combat
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2011, 02:24:39 PM »
In thought you got taken out if you use up all your stress boxes even if you still have concequences remaining so his villan would have to take another minor concequence to reduce the damage to 1 in the example you use. 

Nope. You get taken out if your stress rolls off of your stress boxes. For instance, if you have a 3 checked and get hit for 3 stress, it "rolls off" of your stress box and you get taken out.

The only alternative to that is to take a consequence....

Or take a concession before you get hit again.
Myself: If I were in her(Murphy's) position, I would have studied my ass off on the supernatural and rigged up special weapons to deal with them.  Murphy on the other hand just plans to overpower bad guys with the angst of her short woman's syndrome and blame all resulting failures on Harry.

Offline Saedar

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Re: Question on Combat
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2011, 04:20:58 PM »
Though, if you have 3 boxes and get hit for 4 or more stress, you get taken out if you don't have consequences. This is even if all three boxes are clear.

Offline LepRecon

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Re: Question on Combat
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2011, 07:42:04 PM »
OK well thats clear and very interesting.  So Consequences will be coming fast and hard now as I was a lot nicer to my players.

LepRecon

Offline sinker

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Re: Question on Combat
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2011, 07:47:48 PM »
The first 3 answers were as I thought so basically if you get hit you loose one stress box and it doesnt matter which one.

Another thing to note is that stress always rolls up. So if you already have your 2nd stress box filled in and you get hit for two stress it fills the 3rd box. If you got hit for 2 again it would fill your 4th box (not your 1st), etc.

And yes, you get taken out if you ever have to fill a box you don't have, even if you still have unmarked stress boxes.

Offline Kommisar

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Re: Question on Combat
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2011, 11:37:43 PM »
Having a fairly combat happy group of players I have run quite a few combats.  The one thing my players and I have learned is that combat in DFRPG/FATE can be fairly quick and brutal.  Sort of like real life.  Let's be honest, if you started a gun fight in your living room with six armed people, it would be about four to six seconds before all that was left was the bleeding and crying.  Less if you had people that knew how to shoot and keep their heads in a gun fight. 

In that example, it presumes that everyone just opens up and no one starts diving for cover or anything else besides "Stand and Deliver!"

As my players have learned, many of them the hard way, is that this system really encourages one NOT to go the route of simply swinging/shooting each round.  If you get hit by something serious, in a serious fight (read: not just some bar room brawl of fisticuffs) it is going to hurt.  Badly.  So, one will want to focus on defense first in most cases.  If you have some supernatural toughness/recovery powers, you may already have this covered depending on the magnitude of your opponent.  But, if not, then you need to do what normal people would do in a potentially deadly fight.  Use maneuvers to do things like find cover or other aspects of the scene to aid your defense or otherwise bolster your defense.  Or, if you are a wizard, throw up that block if you don't think you can take care of your opponent in that first evocation hit.

The other HUGE factor that I have found makes DFRPG so hard for old vet players of other systems is how much of a factor teamwork can be.  Many times it can be much more efficient and decisive for a group of players to work together, using maneuvers, declarations and assessments to bolster a big attack than they are to all pile on with their own individual attacks.  Like one would do in, say, D&D.

For instance, if you had 4 wizards taking on a powerful sorcerer.  The sorcerer has thrown up a big shield using foci and gotten a  +14 block (5 conviction, +2 focus, +2 specialization, +1 mental stress, drops the fate point to survive and rolls +2 over on his discipline check).  If the wizards are not real heavies themselves, breaking a 14 shift block by themselves get's tough if not impossible.  They could each stand there and throw everything they have at him and just wind up down some mental stress for the trouble.  On the other hand, if the first three play for the home team, drop some free-tag maneuvers, then the final wizard might not just be able to break the block/shield but could also do some stresses to the bad guy. 

Say, a 4 conviction, +1 focus, +1 specialization, +6 for free tags (+2 from each of the other wizards) and then tags his own High Concept for +2 takes him to 14.  If he is positive on his discipline roll with extra successes, he's inflicting stresses!

Team work pays off big in this game.