Author Topic: Ways to "mark" someone for Divination tracking (or other spells)  (Read 4762 times)

Offline ironpoet

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What are some different ways to "mark" someone so that you could track them later via Divination?  Basically, I'm interested in finding a way to sneak a symbolic link onto someone.  (The most obvious way is to sneak a physical item into their pocket or something, but I'm looking for something that doesn't require Deceit or Burglary.)

Could you mark someone with Thaumaturgy?  In other words, could you cast one spell to create a symbolic link, and then use that link later for other thaumaturgical spells (attack, scrying, tracking, etc)?  This would sort of be like hexing someone, except instead of giving them an Aspect like "Bad Luck", you would give them an Aspect like "Magically Marked".

The Intent here is to mark someone while they are physically present (ideally without them knowing about it) so that you can use Thaumatrugy spells (like Tracking) on them later when they think they are safe.

Some possible ways to mark someone:
- Get them to drink a magically "spiked" drink.
- Create a "land mine" that marks them if they break one of your Wards
- Create an enchanted item that supplements one of your attacks by marking the target

Would any of these be possible, or is it outside the mechanics of Thaumatrugy?

If it *is* possible, what are some other good ways to mark someone?

Offline Becq

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Re: Ways to "mark" someone for Divination tracking (or other spells)
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2010, 07:31:36 PM »
Well, to begin with, the best symbolic link you could acquire to allow you to track someone is a piece of the subject, like some hair or blood.  Once you acquire that, you've got them; it doesn't matter if they take of their jacket and leave behind the special penny in the pocket, etc.  Short of that, as you said, you could plant an easily trackable item on them.

You could probably mark someone with Thaumaturgy.  There are two possible problems with this: the first is that although it would be a fairly simple ritual, it would still take a few minutes and people might start wondering what exactly you were doing, what with drawing a chalk circle and mumbling arcane words and such.  The second is that the energy might be too easy to disrupt; if the subject walks through a threshold, takes a shower, etc, it will disrupt the magic, as will dawn or dusk.  You could reduce the impact of some of these things, but that would bump the complexity up.

A magically spiked drink (ie, a potion) should be as good as a low-ish complexity ritual, but from descriptions in the novels I'd assume that masking the taste would be difficult.  The taste of the potion is what it is (and is usually bad) and mixing it with something else would disrupt the magic on the potion.

Your 'land mine' idea (basically a Thaumaturgy the creates a triggered spell on a location) would probably work, too, if you could guarantee that the subject was the one to trigger it (you wouldn't be able to specify him as a trigger without a symbolic link).

Here's my idea for marking someone on a budget.  Note that it is not spectacularly sneaky, but could work against a subject that was not actively looking for threats in a sufficently public place.  A party of some sort would be ideal.

Get yourself some chewing gum.  Chew thoroughly.  Bite off a small piece and put it in your hand.
Go say hello to the subject.  Give him a hearty handshake, quickly pressing the gum onto his arm or shoulder with your other hand.
Take the remaining gum to your arcane sanctum and attach it to a picture of the target.  You now have a symbolic link that satisfies the magical laws of contagion (the link between the two pieces of gum) and similarity (the picture as representative of the subject).  That's +4 toward the complexity right there...

Offline Haru

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Re: Ways to "mark" someone for Divination tracking (or other spells)
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2010, 08:34:44 PM »
I have one idea, but I think you should only ever do this if you are really desperate to get the link.

I am talking about a soul swap. Not a complete one of course, that would make no sense. Basically, what you do is take a tiny piece of his soul and put a piece of your own soul into the void and vice versa. The link should be as strong as it gets, but I guess it would be dangerous as well as getting dangerously close to breaking at least one law, but desperate times...

As for the rules, I would inflict a mental consequence on both yourself and your target to represent the exchanged pieces of your souls. In my understanding, the alien piece of soul would probably be treated like an infection in a real body, so it would take time to heal, sure, but after a while it will be gone and both souls will have regenerated to their original state. The more serious the consequence, the longer it is going to stay, of course.
However, it could go horribly wrong and you swap more than just what you need to get the link. In that case, backlash could for example result in the exchange of aspects.

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Offline ironpoet

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Re: Ways to "mark" someone for Divination tracking (or other spells)
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2010, 08:46:45 PM »
Here's my idea for marking someone on a budget.  Note that it is not spectacularly sneaky, but could work against a subject that was not actively looking for threats in a sufficently public place.  A party of some sort would be ideal.

Get yourself some chewing gum.  Chew thoroughly.  Bite off a small piece and put it in your hand.
Go say hello to the subject.  Give him a hearty handshake, quickly pressing the gum onto his arm or shoulder with your other hand.
Take the remaining gum to your arcane sanctum and attach it to a picture of the target.  You now have a symbolic link that satisfies the magical laws of contagion (the link between the two pieces of gum) and similarity (the picture as representative of the subject).  That's +4 toward the complexity right there...

If you were just trying to track or scry on the gum (because you knew it would lead to the target as well), would you need a picture of the target?  Would that lower the complexity of the tracking spell, since you wouldn't have to overcome the gum's Conviction?  (This assumes that you didn't use a truly righteous gum, of course...)

Offline ironpoet

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Re: Ways to "mark" someone for Divination tracking (or other spells)
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2010, 09:08:32 PM »
You could probably mark someone with Thaumaturgy.  There are two possible problems with this: the first is that although it would be a fairly simple ritual, it would still take a few minutes and people might start wondering what exactly you were doing, what with drawing a chalk circle and mumbling arcane words and such.  The second is that the energy might be too easy to disrupt; if the subject walks through a threshold, takes a shower, etc, it will disrupt the magic, as will dawn or dusk.  You could reduce the impact of some of these things, but that would bump the complexity up.

Fair enough.  I was hoping that a decent "marking" spell would be low enough complexity that it could be contained inside an enchanted item - that would eliminate the need for chalk circles, etc.  For example, an enchanted bullet that fires like a normal bullet, but also contains a hidden spell payload.  So even though your bullet just bounced off the Supernaturally Tough skin of the Ogre you shot at, what he doesn't realize is that you've marked him now.

A magically spiked drink (ie, a potion) should be as good as a low-ish complexity ritual, but from descriptions in the novels I'd assume that masking the taste would be difficult.  The taste of the potion is what it is (and is usually bad) and mixing it with something else would disrupt the magic on the potion.

Good point.  What about spiking another magical potion?  "Here's the Potion of Inhuman Speed that you asked for.  What's that?  It's tastes funny?  It's a magic potion - it's supposed to taste funny!"  On the other hand, I have no idea what effect mixing potions together would have...

Your 'land mine' idea (basically a Thaumaturgy the creates a triggered spell on a location) would probably work, too, if you could guarantee that the subject was the one to trigger it (you wouldn't be able to specify him as a trigger without a symbolic link).

In this particular case, I was thinking that you'd specifically want to track whoever it was that tried to break through your Ward, so targeting would be relatively trivial.

Offline Becq

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Re: Ways to "mark" someone for Divination tracking (or other spells)
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2010, 10:15:17 PM »
If you were just trying to track or scry on the gum (because you knew it would lead to the target as well), would you need a picture of the target?  Would that lower the complexity of the tracking spell, since you wouldn't have to overcome the gum's Conviction?  (This assumes that you didn't use a truly righteous gum, of course...)
Consider that as far as DFRPG is concerned, what you're really doing is using magic as a substitute for an Investigation roll.  Being magic, it makes impossible things possible, etc.  But even given all that, and assuming it was possible to locate a person or piece of gum in a city ... which would be easier?  I'd tend to say that even if it was possible to locate gum somewhere in the city, it would be in the legendary range.  So I guess I see it still as trying to find the target, but with the gum providing the necessary link.  The divided gum then allows you to make a declaration involving the law of contagion, and the picture allows you to make a declaration involving the law of similarity; the two aspects you create can then be tagged to either fulfill the complexity requirement (useful if you want to bump up the complexity to deal with potential wards or make the spell work faster) or to aid in controlling the spell (useful to prevent flubbing the spell).  By the way, the whole similarity/contagion thing assumes your spellcaster believes in that style of magic; a Shaman would do things differently.

By the way, I just checked the rules on symbolic links, and they indicate that even a sculpture of the target would be enough to meet the minimum necessary requirements of casting Thaumaturgy.  So if your character had a bit of an artistic bent and a few photos to work with, he might be able to craft a suitable symbolic link without even being in the target's presence.  That said, my assumption is that such a link would provide no bonuses in and of itself.

Fair enough.  I was hoping that a decent "marking" spell would be low enough complexity that it could be contained inside an enchanted item - that would eliminate the need for chalk circles, etc.  For example, an enchanted bullet that fires like a normal bullet, but also contains a hidden spell payload.  So even though your bullet just bounced off the Supernaturally Tough skin of the Ogre you shot at, what he doesn't realize is that you've marked him now.
I think that you could use the enchanted item idea to give yourself an aspect to tag for a bonus, but it wouldn't be a 'symbolic link'.  At least, not the way you worded it.  DFRPG is very subjective and dependant on the story you tell, though, so maybe it would work.  Or alternatively, you could describe the bullet enchantment as being the magical equivalent of a leaky paint bottle attached to the target, leaving a trail behind him.  The possible downside is that there's only so much 'paint' the bullet can hold, so to speak, and anyone with the Sight would be able to see the spell's effects (thus possibly tipping off your quarry).

Good point.  What about spiking another magical potion?  "Here's the Potion of Inhuman Speed that you asked for.  What's that?  It's tastes funny?  It's a magic potion - it's supposed to taste funny!"  On the other hand, I have no idea what effect mixing potions together would have...
I think mixing potions is probably a very, very bad idea.  I think the best case scenario is that the resulting mixture becomes a mundane, foul-tasting drink.  Worst case scenarios probably involve explosive reactions.

Keep in mind, by the way, that all of these systems are extremely subjective, and these are my opinions.  Your mileage may vary.  The most important things to consider are (a) fun, and (b) game balance -- and remember that anything you convince your GM to let you do is more than likely to be done back to you at an inconvenient time.  So it's possible that undetectable symbolic-link-aspect evocations capable of guiding TMDs (Thaumaturgies of Mass Destruction) are not a good idea.  :)

Offline Ophidimancer

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Re: Ways to "mark" someone for Divination tracking (or other spells)
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2010, 10:18:00 PM »
How about using a Lore roll to Assess their aura signature, so you can later use that to lock in on their position?  It's not a True Name, but it's something.  The Sight would be useful for this, I'd imagine.

Offline Drashna

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Re: Ways to "mark" someone for Divination tracking (or other spells)
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2010, 01:23:27 AM »
I skipped most of the posts.  Theoretically, all you need to create the link is their True Name. Ask them to tell you their full name from their lips. Done and Done. You're rituals are ready to go (just don't delay *too* long, mortal's change, but sups don't!) 
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Offline MWKilduff

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Re: Ways to "mark" someone for Divination tracking (or other spells)
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2010, 01:56:42 AM »
Well  depending on the situation there are a lot of social situations that will allow for marking and require no roll.  Tea is nothing more than a small saturation of the tea leaves in water.  Drink the tea and part of the leaf is now with you for at least the next hour.  How about cookies?  Cookies from the same batch could track each other.  The gum idea was great.  Don't forget you could do small pieces of gum like caltrops as the person you want to track leaves.  Hell how about a tack that is small enough not to penetrate a shoe made from a larger piece of metal you could use as a the source to track.  There was a playdoh post that was fabulous for this... 
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Offline zerogain

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Re: Ways to "mark" someone for Divination tracking (or other spells)
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2010, 03:27:54 AM »
So... not really related... but there is the comment from Becq that he doesn't know what mixing potions would do.  I am an old school D&D guy, got my start with the original red box, and the versions the school library had (before they got purged by 'concerned' parents), and one thing they had back then was the concept of Potion Miscibility, regarding random effects that happen when you mix potions.  While I don't have a link to any of the old tables, Wizards had an April Fools on the subject here http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20060401b. (Mix chart is toward the end of the article.)

If mixing potions is up your alley this might serve as inspiration, if nothing else.

Offline sinker

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Re: Ways to "mark" someone for Divination tracking (or other spells)
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2010, 06:15:41 AM »
I have one idea, but I think you should only ever do this if you are really desperate to get the link.

I am talking about a soul swap. Not a complete one of course, that would make no sense. Basically, what you do is take a tiny piece of his soul and put a piece of your own soul into the void and vice versa. The link should be as strong as it gets, but I guess it would be dangerous as well as getting dangerously close to breaking at least one law, but desperate times...

As for the rules, I would inflict a mental consequence on both yourself and your target to represent the exchanged pieces of your souls. In my understanding, the alien piece of soul would probably be treated like an infection in a real body, so it would take time to heal, sure, but after a while it will be gone and both souls will have regenerated to their original state. The more serious the consequence, the longer it is going to stay, of course.
However, it could go horribly wrong and you swap more than just what you need to get the link. In that case, backlash could for example result in the exchange of aspects.



As a GM I would tag/compel that consequence as often as I possibly could.

Offline ironpoet

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Re: Ways to "mark" someone for Divination tracking (or other spells)
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2010, 03:41:18 PM »
Consider that as far as DFRPG is concerned, what you're really doing is using magic as a substitute for an Investigation roll.  Being magic, it makes impossible things possible, etc.  But even given all that, and assuming it was possible to locate a person or piece of gum in a city ... which would be easier?  I'd tend to say that even if it was possible to locate gum somewhere in the city, it would be in the legendary range. 

Well, my intent in this post is to find a way to magically "bug" someone without them knowing.  So I was thinking of the gum (or similar objects) as the magical version of a radio transmitter, which would be relatively easy to locate in a city.

Keep in mind, by the way, that all of these systems are extremely subjective, and these are my opinions.  Your mileage may vary.  The most important things to consider are (a) fun, and (b) game balance -- and remember that anything you convince your GM to let you do is more than likely to be done back to you at an inconvenient time.  So it's possible that undetectable symbolic-link-aspect evocations capable of guiding TMDs (Thaumaturgies of Mass Destruction) are not a good idea.  :)

Agreed.  I think it might be fun to add some espionage to the Dresden Files (tracking spells, reverse-tracking spells, discovering that your enemy found the "tracker" and set up an ambush, etc.).  But I wouldn't want to start using it to fire magical nukes at people from a distance - that seems so undignified!

Offline ironpoet

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Re: Ways to "mark" someone for Divination tracking (or other spells)
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2010, 03:54:39 PM »
So here's a proposal.

Enchanted Item: Tracker Ring

The Tracker Ring is a large quartz crystal mounted on a silver band.  Once per session, the ring can temporarily transform the crystal into powder (essentially applying the aspect "Tranformed Into Dust").  The powder can be used to mark someone in any number of ways.
- It could be diluted into a drink
- It could be hidden inside a vehicle or home
- It could be placed on an opponent in Combat via Air Evocation

The two pieces of the ring (silver band and quartz crystal) remain magically linked, and can be used as a symbolic link for the purposes of Thaumaturgical Spells.  This mystical link is visible by The Sight, and, if discovered, could be used in reverse.

When the transformation wears off, the quartz powder is resummoned and reformed onto the ring.

This is basically a fancier, possibly more subtle version of the gum scenario suggested above.

Offline Haru

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Re: Ways to "mark" someone for Divination tracking (or other spells)
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2010, 06:30:12 PM »
As a GM I would tag/compel that consequence as often as I possibly could.

That was pretty much what I meant by "only if you are really desperate" ;)

Although it sure as hell would keep things interesting  ;D


If you want to bug him, you can as well do it literally. In the TV show, Harry let himself sting by a couple of bees near the ear and the eye to form the link and then he flies them into the bad guys home to spy on them.
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