Author Topic: Capt. Jack Harkness  (Read 10022 times)

Offline Drachasor

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Re: Capt. Jack Harkness
« Reply #45 on: July 10, 2010, 08:07:38 AM »
True, but not having vitals (especially when the check for vitals is done by a person and not machines and tests) isn't the same as massive cellular death throughout your body. There are many things in real life that could make a person seem dead to the standard checks for life. I define "dead" as the point when the bacteria in your body start eating and decomposing you. Its been awhile since I've watched the ep, but I seem to remember a scene where he was in the morgue on one of the tables and a dead body was on the table next to him. His skin was nice and pink, while the dead guy's body was the standard dead-body-gray color. This to me shows that his body never truly died, though I'm sure it felt like he had more then once.

You can't base in-world mechanics off of characters' conversational dialogue. People say inaccurate things all the time, especially when the people around them know what they are talking about anyway, and the same thing applies to the conversions of characters. Jack saying he died and came back to life over and over doesn't carry any weight because he is the one suffering through the traumatic situation and his perspective is understandably clouded. If he had died or gone unconscious from shock, suffocation, etc, he wouldn't know the difference between that or dieing and coming back. Once you're unconscious your heart can stop, be shocked back, and you would never know it.

When he was in the morgue they did medical scans on him.  And your definition of "dead" is kind of silly, as it wouldn't work in space, for instance.  Death happens when your organs are no longer functioning, and they've shown he's gone through that.  Beyond such thing, the Doctor has confirmed that he dies and then comes back during the first cross-over -- you can hardly find a better expert than that.

Offline Jeckel

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Re: Capt. Jack Harkness
« Reply #46 on: July 10, 2010, 08:57:41 AM »
Ok, you got me, I will gladly cede the point based on the word of the Doctor. And chalk him being scaned with machines for life up to my bad memory. Guess I need to look for a new example of someone that doesn't die. :)

I don't agree that my definition of death is silly, though I guess the way I wrote was sort of rambling. If the rule was "when your organs no longer function" then various forms of sci-fi suspended animation or cryogenic stasis that completely stop the functioning of organs would make you dead and I don't think that feels right.

Personally I don't think your dead until some undefined point when you can't be "brought back to life". I guess I put the line where your body as a whole begins to break down for whatever reason, be it bacteria in an appropriate atmosphere, the vacuum and radiation of space degrading the cells, or whatever. Its a hard thing to put a definitive line on as evident by the lack of a satisfying biological definition of "life" in the real world, much less a real definition of when someone or something is "dead". Either way, just how I've handled it in my rps, I'm sure others have done it other ways and have other definitions.
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Offline Drachasor

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Re: Capt. Jack Harkness
« Reply #47 on: July 10, 2010, 09:11:58 AM »
Personally I don't think your dead until some undefined point when you can't be "brought back to life". I guess I put the line where your body as a whole begins to break down for whatever reason, be it bacteria in an appropriate atmosphere, the vacuum and radiation of space degrading the cells, or whatever. Its a hard thing to put a definitive line on as evident by the lack of a satisfying biological definition of "life" in the real world, much less a real definition of when someone or something is "dead". Either way, just how I've handled it in my rps, I'm sure others have done it other ways and have other definitions.

Your definition of death is a moving target with regards to advancing medical technology.  Even today we can bring people back that 30 years ago we could not.  Decay is just a kind of tissue damage, and bacteria feasting on your flesh is just a kind of infection.  Death isn't an easy thing to spot per se either, and we have doctors declare people dead after attempts to revive someone fail.  There's a certain point after which no oxygen to the brain will lead to unavoidable brain damage (today anyhow, perhaps in 30 years we'll be able to repair that and extend how long someone can be dead before being brought back).  I'll grant my definition was imprecise, such as it is, as various parts of the body stop working at different points, but one might consider that just indicative that death has some grey areas.

In anycase, Jack goes through periods where his heart, brain, lungs, and so forth cease function and only comes out of that do to the fact he's a fact.

Oddly as it may seem though, defining "life" is different from defining "death," but that's because our definitions for "life" are very broad and involve reproduction ("life" and "alive" are different).

Anyhow, the game system seems to have a few ways to handle immortality of various sorts, which is pretty cool.

Offline Jersalyn

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Re: Capt. Jack Harkness
« Reply #48 on: July 10, 2010, 12:22:50 PM »
You guys forgetting when a BOMB BLEW UP INSIDE HIM?
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