Campaign Conclusion set at City Creation?

[R00kie]

I'm concerned that during City creation we may have already determined where our campaign has to go. I don't like railroading. I'm pretty sure its going to get there without any, but I think the end has been set.

Anton Chekhov said:

If you say in the first chapter that there is a rifle hanging on the wall, in the second or third chapter it absolutely must go off. If it's not going to be fired, it shouldn't be hanging there.

And its pretty good advice. If you advertise something in a game you really need to follow through. If you talk about an assassin who's unbeatable - no one has escaped his blade, then its pretty important the players at some point get to cleverly 'escape his blade', the impregnable fortress needs to be scaled, the dark forces gathering in the sewers need to be illuminated.

Unfortunately as part of city generation we've managed to come up with :

• A threat with the aspect "Something hungers beyond the Outer Gates"
• a city enclosed within city walls which act as a threshold to supernatural creatures (and wizards),
• a single gate which is the only way supernatural creatures can enter/leave the area enclosed by the c12th city walls,
• an ancient being (who appears to be an old woman but has immense power) who it is said hasn't left York since the C12th because if she did the walls would fall (and may actually be the Roman Godess Cybele !!).
• an ancient prophecy who believe that when Yorkshire falls to the thing from Beyond the Outer gates, that within Yorks walls alone will stand and the defenders of Yorkshire will rally there.
• and finally a cult lead by a Ectomancer who things she is hearing her dead husbands voice but is actually talking to something from beyond the Outer Gates bent upon bringing about that prophecy

Now we have loads of other plot lines involving the three Vampire courts, politics between the Church and the City Council, the police war on drug pushers and minor plots involving tourists and students - but it seems to me based on the bullet pointed items above the campaign can only go one way. If it doesn't its going to disappoint.

If you're interested the city sheets we come up with are here.

[luminos]

Hmmm, the easiest way to fix the problem is to make the threat less specific to the thing beyond the outer gates.  Some things to mitigate the "railroad" factor is to plan ahead to think of various ways the PC's might succeed or fail.  Is there an opportunity (no matter how slim) for the PC's to stop stop the prophecy from being fulfilled?  Are there ways that the PC's can accidentally speed the process up?  If the prophecy gets fulfilled, will the PC's be able to effect the preparations of the cities defenses in a noteworthy way?  And finally, is there a consequence for complete failure to stop the outsider?  Finding answers to those questions is a good start to making a non-linear campaign.  Make sure you know what conditions will trigger the prophecy, and if any of the PC's are clever enough to thwart the, reward that success by keeping the outsider outside.  So if it looks like crazy ectomancer lady is going to let the thing in, then let the PC's stop it by killing her ahead of time.

[R00kie]

My concern isn't so much to do with finding a way to provide a non-linear campaign, since I'm open to anything players want to do. Its more about meeting player expectations - in City creation they've pretty much stated where they want it to go. I have the choice of failing to meet those expectations - or providing a plot which is so obvious everyone can see if coming a mile off.

Of course its entirely possible during play the players will push in a completely different direction in which case there isn't an issue.

[luminos]

In that situation, I might try keeping about 3 or 4 plots all going at the same time, and be clever about hiding which one leads to the outsider problem.  Worst comes to worst, they still see everything from a mile away, but since they are the ones who put all the forecasting into how the outsider plot moves into the city creation, they should still get a result that they were looking for and enjoy it.

[R00kie]

That sounds pretty good. We know where we are going, but the journey is a mystery and we're not sure what we'll meet on the way.

[Llayne]

First, who made this prophesy? Somebody long dead I suppose. Include some of his other prophesies in his writings, some that have come true, some clearly were wrong. This will cause the PC's to question the reliablity of the prophesy.

Next, how did they find out about this prophesy, and do they even know about it? Perhaps there are sections missing from the original... a few words that change the meaning somehow?

Something like that would probably have been translated a dozen times since it was originally made, and things change in the telling. Perhaps the church beleives it applies to the Apocalypse, and to Lucifer. Maybe the druids beleive it is the return of their ancient power.

The wording is probably more vague than what your PC's came up with as an aspect/theme. Try making it sound vague or old sounding, something like: "devestation shall be visited on Yorkshire upon the eldritch Power's return. around a beacon within the walls will the stallwart assemble, That contained within shall turn the tide."

Let's pick that version apart:
It doesn't say the 'power' will cause the devastation, just that it happens when the power returns. maybe the pc's destroy the city trying to stop it?
'eldritch power' is vague, could be something beyond the outer gates, could be lucifer, could be druidic/pagan powers.
Is the 'beacon within the walls' a person? A place? an artifact?
'That contained within' could mean within the walls, within the 'beacon' be it person/place or thing.' Maybe they have to destroy an ancient powerful artifact to release it's energy? Kill the old lady?
Then there's my personal favorite, perhaps the Walls are warded not just to keep something out, but to contain  something within them/. Maybe at the center of the inner city, the focal point for the wards, something is bound. If the PC's think to defend against this other 'eldritch power' they might break it open and release 'That contained within' (which was the true thing beyond the outer gates) essentially fufilling the prophesy themselves.

I would sit down and try to think about all the different interpretations you can come up with the prophesy, so even when the PC's think they have everything figured out, you can throw in a twist at the last minute.

I would also establish the ectomancer as a friend early on in the game, and you probably don't want the PC's to know she's an ectomancer. Maybe she owns/runs the accorded nuetral territory, or a shop where they can get ritual gear or occult books. Have her help them out several times to establish trust, then have her start requesting help with things... things that SEEM innocent. Find her missing daughter, her mothers inherited amulet that was stolen, etc...  When the PC's realize they've been helping the cult all along, they will be totally thrown!

[Falar]

Weird. As I considered it, that's one of the main draws of City Creation. There are not a lot of games where the players right up front get a say-so in where the campaign is going to go and what they want to see. That, to me, is the best part about City Creation as presented in the Dresden Files. The players say they want to do something along these lines? It gets baked right in to the creation of the game. It's awesome.

Then it's up to the GM to make it an entertaining story of how they do whatever it is they want to do. Or deal with what they want to deal with. Whereas some GMs might see this as more challenging, I believe that once you've done City and Character Creation and done them well, the game runs itself a lot. You just take a look at Aspects and boom, there's an idea for an arc.

Buuuuut that might just be me.

[Vash the white]

well i havent read the whole thread but i got to say, take them through all this stuff, and then make some awsome unexpected betrayal and kill off a couple pc's, then they will be like, "dude, what the hell just happend? lol 

[blues.soldier]

I think the trick of it will be in the application of the plot ideas that come up in City Creation, not necessarily going against them. Your players, during your city Creation session, give you as a GM metric buttloads of stuff to work with. Plots, Places, People... all of it. They tell you (by their choices of theme, Aspects, Troubles, etc) what kind of game you should run for them. Playing against the things you see in your city isn't really a good idea-- it is, in effect, telling your players that you know better than they do. That's just bad juju.

Instead, use the stuff they gave you and twist it juuuuuust a little to suit your own ends and keep them hopping. I cite Gentleman Johnny Marcone as a perfect example. In a hypothetical City Creation, Marcone is likely listed as the head of Chicago's mob with just a couple of other sentences. The "GM" (meaning Butcher) then takes the PC (Harry) and puts him into plots that use Marcone... but not necessarily the way Harry expected. Marcone is revealed to be an altogether subtler and more layered character than we believe initially. and that's a good thing. That keeps us coming back to read the Dresden Files. And it will keep your PCs coming back to your table for the same reasons.

[arentol]

I actually don't see a problem at all. You have a lot of semi-connected facts that you are interpreting as ultimately leading to a final battle where the walls fall, all heck breaks loose in the city, and the story (campaign) effectively comes to an end. I don't see this at all. You have a MILLION things you could do with all this with a multitude of possible conclusions, none of which ends the campaign.

*A story line that resolves the threat without failed walls, and does so within the power limits of the PCs and their allies, but of course creates a new threat that is even greater.
*A story line that resolves the threat by having the walls fail and the "something" win or lose. This could be either a small portion of the walls in both a physical and magical sense, the entire thing in only a magical sense (so mundanes don't see it), or the entire thing in a physical and magical sense. No matter which it is the failed wall will massively change either a threat or theme of the city, or both, giving you plenty of new stories to play through.
*A series of sub-plots or stories that never resolve anything. This thing has presumably been outside the walls for 800 years. If it hasn't made it in yet then there is no need for it to make it in during the course of your campaign, or certainly no time remotely soon. This could be the PCs un-named and ultimate nemesis that they don't even realize they are fighting against most of the time because its plots are subtle and involve many other faces in the city. As a matter of fact EVERYTHING could be affected in some way by this unseen enemy that is never directly confronted. Over many years (game time) the PCs would slowly realize just how many times they were really fighting against this things attempts to enter the city, but they would also realize a direct confrontation would never resolve this. It is just an endless game they have to deal with as best they can, and be prepared to pass the torch to the next generation when their time is up.

Other thoughts:

    * A threat with the aspect "Something hungers beyond the Outer Gates"
    * an ancient being (who appears to be an old woman but has immense power) who it is said hasn't left York since the C12th because if she did the walls would fall (and may actually be the Roman Godess Cybele !!).
    * an ancient prophecy who believe that when Yorkshire falls to the thing from Beyond the Outer gates, that within Yorks walls alone will stand and the defenders of Yorkshire will rally there.

Perhaps you could have a series of storyline(s) where if the PCs (eventually) fail to stop someone (the ectomancer, a misguided RCV, etc.) then a portion of the wall fails and this thing enters. The PCs then have to try and stop it from finding the beacon, which is actually the ancient old lady that is one of the PCs friends, and which is helpless on her own against the hungry being (it is her achilles heal of sorts). Fortunately it is not that strong yet because of its been hungry for 800 years! So the PCs are strong enough to beat and destroy it, if they manage to track it down. It will be using pawns it controls once in the city to help it figure out who and where the "beacon" woman is, so that provides a storyline after the wall has failed. If they players do destroy it then the threat from it is ended. If they don't stop it then a very powerful being is unleashed on the city and they have to convince all the factions of the city to work together to destroy it (or weaken it and trap it somewhere), changing the power structure of the city when they succeed (important people die, and the remaining have also worked together, changing their view of each other just a little). Obviously no matter when it is beaten it changes the threat and themes of the city, keeping the story going.

    * a city enclosed within city walls which act as a threshold to supernatural creatures (and wizards),
    * a single gate which is the only way supernatural creatures can enter/leave the area enclosed by the c12th city walls,

If the thing gets in as detailed above, then there is the question of what to do about the new hole in the wall. Perhaps the reason for the wall in the first place was actually that the city is particularly close to a very wild portion of Nevernever in many locations. With the wall down there are numerous new places that creatures from Nevernever can come through, and so these random wild Nevernever creatures are the new major threat. The PCs have to deal with this threat while also trying to figure out how to rebuild the wall, possibly against the wishes (and efforts) of certain other established factions that find the increased chaos and fear created by the Nevernever creatures to be in their favor. Perhaps WCV's that feed on fear even move to the city because of the ridiculous level of fear.
   
    * and finally a cult lead by a Ectomancer who things she is hearing her dead husbands voice but is actually talking to something from beyond the Outer Gates bent upon bringing about that prophecy

This is just the kicking off point for your first story based around the "something" trying to get in. Once the players beat this lady the thing will come up with a new method to try and get in, providing many storylines to come.