Author Topic: Writing Lyrics into Prose  (Read 4305 times)

Offline blgarver

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Writing Lyrics into Prose
« on: March 16, 2009, 01:46:29 PM »
So...I'm not songwriter.  Nor am I a poet.  Prose is my game and I don't attempt the delicate verse. 

Until now, anyway.  I am using a bard song in an early scene of my new story to tell the tale of an infamous pirate that's been ravaging the coast for decades.  Anywho...I have to write a freaking song.

This is a two part challenge for me.

1)  I've never written a song in my life.  Let alone one of bardish nature.

2)  I'm struggling to decide how to work the lyrics into the prose without making them stick out like a sore thumb. 


Anyone have any suggestions/advice/resources about how to go about this?  My main concern right now is to write the song.  Because I can't move forward with the story until the song is written.  Well, I could, but I'd rather not.

Any help is greatly appreciated.  Thanks guys!

BLG
I'm a videographer by trade.  Check out my work if you're a writer that needs to procrastinate.  Not as good as Rhett and Link, but I do what I can.
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Offline Blaze

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Re: Writing Lyrics into Prose
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2009, 03:41:54 PM »
http://www.poetryfoundation.org/archive/tool.poem.html

This can be a good resource.  You need an original poem?  Ballad?  Sea Shanty? 

Can you use something already written but in the public domain? 

What time period are you looking for?

I would be happy to help.  PM me.


Chi pò, non vò; chi vò, non pò; chi sà, non fà; chi fà, non sà; e così, male il mondo va.

Offline blgarver

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Re: Writing Lyrics into Prose
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2009, 04:35:57 PM »
I'm going for original lyrics.  I hacked out a few yesterday, but I am in the middle of battling a pretty raucious head cold and I'm not sure how great my noob song came out.  I am toying with posting what I have so far, but I am uber self conscious about it, even more so than I am with my prose.

The song is about a pirate named Taluca that has become a living legend through his savagery.  So I am mainly concerned with the story the song needs to tell.  I'm not sure if I need to address the rhythm of the song or not.  I'm not very musical.

But I've read several things that incorporate lyrics and music, all written with different techniques, but all very effective.  I am just super-new at writing lyrics.
I'm a videographer by trade.  Check out my work if you're a writer that needs to procrastinate.  Not as good as Rhett and Link, but I do what I can.
http://vimeo.com/user1855060/videos

Offline Blaze

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Re: Writing Lyrics into Prose
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2009, 12:33:41 AM »
You could always go post it in the Shall I compare thee to a Mooseburger -- the bad poetry thread.  And then people will look at it with a kind eye.

HUGS
Chi pò, non vò; chi vò, non pò; chi sà, non fà; chi fà, non sà; e così, male il mondo va.

Offline blgarver

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Re: Writing Lyrics into Prose
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2009, 03:32:06 PM »
So I found a program called MasterWriter 2.0.  I haven't used it much yet, but I think I'll have a chance tonight to get back to the grind.  It looks to be a very powerful songwriting tool with a ridiculous rhyming and syllabic search engine.  Pretty in depth. 

Hopefully this will help with my first attempt at songwriting.
I'm a videographer by trade.  Check out my work if you're a writer that needs to procrastinate.  Not as good as Rhett and Link, but I do what I can.
http://vimeo.com/user1855060/videos

Offline Blaze

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Re: Writing Lyrics into Prose
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2009, 06:42:37 PM »
I have never used one of those.  Let me know how it works. 
Chi pò, non vò; chi vò, non pò; chi sà, non fà; chi fà, non sà; e così, male il mondo va.

Offline blgarver

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Re: Writing Lyrics into Prose
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2009, 06:20:45 PM »
Well so far it's pretty awesome.  Though it's a just a word processing tool.  Hasn't really opened the doors to any inner lyrical aptitude.  It can find me any word I need to rhym with any other word...but it doesn't help with the talent portion I seem to be lacking.
I'm a videographer by trade.  Check out my work if you're a writer that needs to procrastinate.  Not as good as Rhett and Link, but I do what I can.
http://vimeo.com/user1855060/videos

Offline thausgt

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Re: Writing Lyrics into Prose
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2009, 01:55:21 AM »
I'm going for original lyrics.  I hacked out a few yesterday, but I am in the middle of battling a pretty raucious head cold and I'm not sure how great my noob song came out.  I am toying with posting what I have so far, but I am uber self conscious about it, even more so than I am with my prose.

I note that you say 'original lyrics', rather than 'original music', which might make your task slightly easier. Back in the days when copyrights were slightly looser, it was fairly common practice for a popular tune to have many different sets of lyrics hung on it; I'm thinking of all the songs spawned by "Greensleeves", if that helps.

The song is about a pirate named Taluca that has become a living legend through his savagery.  So I am mainly concerned with the story the song needs to tell.  I'm not sure if I need to address the rhythm of the song or not.  I'm not very musical.

But I've read several things that incorporate lyrics and music, all written with different techniques, but all very effective.  I am just super-new at writing lyrics.

From the perspective of what you want the song to do, I've got a couple of ideas. First, write out the story (or stories) of what Taluca did, then strip it down to the barest essential details. Keep in mind that different details may be distorted or wholly made up by the balladeers for one reason or another (inaccurate information, the authorities trying to wreck Taluca's reputation, Taluca himself trying to *inflate* his repuation, the works).

The next step assumes that Taluca's age and world was similar to the Golden Age of Piracy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Age_of_Piracy
... approximately 1650-1720. If so, then you've got a lot of source material to work through. (GURPS Swashbucklers, ISBN 978-1556343940, might be an excellent shortcut through some of it.) Track down a tune you like and see if you can shoehorn some of the basics of Taluca's story into the musical structure.

Who knows, you might even find more than one song that strikes your fancy.

Good luck!
From my heart and from my hand
Why don't people understand
My intentions?

Offline Blaze

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Re: Writing Lyrics into Prose
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2009, 03:20:15 PM »
Why don't you start with say four lines that say what you want to say in the song.  They can either make one strong statement or four individual statements, or two statements.  At this point, don't worry about meter or rhyme.

If one statement, then write corollary statements,  one for each main reason for the song.

If four statements, the write four lines on each individual, or if two statements, write eight lines.

Example (and remember that subject is up to you, this is just an example):

I like dogs.
I like all dogs.
I especially like Weiner dogs
I have three Weiner dogs.

Now, you could grab a thesaurus to help you here.  That isn't cheating.  Or you can look into, say Rhyme.com whatever floats your boat.

I have been around dogs since I was little.
Life without dogs is lonely for me.
I used to think I only liked big dogs,
But now I realize that I really like all shapes and sizes.

But someone got me a miniature dachshund.
And he was so great I fell in love with the breed.
Now I have two more miniature dachshunds,
and if I could, I would have a dachshund farm.


This of the first quatrain as your refrain, and the other two as verses.

REF:
I like dogs.                              =  My heart goes out toward a canine
I like all dogs.                          =  The ugliest mutt to me looks fine
I especially like Weiner dogs       =  But Doxies are the bestest things
I have three Weiner dogs.          =  I have a trio, my heart sings!

Verse I:
I have been around dogs since I was little.                    =   Ruffy was my best friend when I was just a tot   
Life without dogs is lonely for me.                                =   Always there, on my side, the best friend I'd got.
I used to think I only liked big dogs,                             =   Her big frame held a big heart, and meant a lot
But now I realize that I really like all shapes and sizes.     =   to me.  But all dogs have that gift, I've found.   
(okay I couldn't think of an "ot" for that last line.)

But someone got me a miniature dachshund.                   = My best friend brought me Oberon
And he was so great I fell in love with the breed.             = I took one look at him, and I was gone
Now I have two more miniature dachshunds,                   = And so I got another one, and another one
and if I could, I would have a dachshund farm.                = and if I could, I buy the pound.
(Aha! I rhymed "found.")


Okay if I was to go on and one and on, (and believe me I could) I would expound on all the wienery exploits of my friends.

Now this was a top of my head example, and it had not deeper meaning or concern after it, which I am assuming your lyrics would.

But it is a good framework to start with.  Know the story or emotion behind the song and once you set down what you want it to say, you can convert it.

I don't do this for poetry, because the form comes very easy to me, but sometimes I am commissioned to write commemorative pieces that MUST contain certain information.  Then, I do come back to figuring out what order I want to say things in, do that in prose and then convert the prose to poetic format.

I hope this helps you!




 
Chi pò, non vò; chi vò, non pò; chi sà, non fà; chi fà, non sà; e così, male il mondo va.

Offline blgarver

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Re: Writing Lyrics into Prose
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2009, 01:46:32 PM »
Wow, actually that is exactly the type of advice I was hoping for.  Thank you!  This will help me out a lot!  Can't wait til I get off work this evening to take a nother whack at it.  Thanks!  I'll let you know if I produce anything worthwhile.

BLG
I'm a videographer by trade.  Check out my work if you're a writer that needs to procrastinate.  Not as good as Rhett and Link, but I do what I can.
http://vimeo.com/user1855060/videos

Offline Blaze

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Re: Writing Lyrics into Prose
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2009, 02:12:37 PM »
Feel free to PM whatever you come up with to me, and I will be kind and constructive.  I judge poetry comps, and believe me, there is nothing I like better than to encourage a new poet.
Chi pò, non vò; chi vò, non pò; chi sà, non fà; chi fà, non sà; e così, male il mondo va.

Offline Blaze

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Re: Writing Lyrics into Prose
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2009, 03:45:13 PM »
Okay, I am going to add some other information, just because.

The kenning:

A kenning is a cool way to say something in creatively descriptive way.  These can be useful for lots of reasons!  To help meter, to help rhyme, for the sake of alliteration (repeating the same beginning sound over and over,) to be able to say the same thing over and over and yet in a new way.  These were used by Anglo Saxon and Norse poets, largely, but also make appearance in other forms.

Take a concept, and put a spin on it.

The sea: whale's way;  swan-road

Gold include:  Sweat of the sun; Sun's tears

Lava:  Earth's Blood

My recent favorite:  Malt-surf  (beer.)
Chi pò, non vò; chi vò, non pò; chi sà, non fà; chi fà, non sà; e così, male il mondo va.

Offline Blaze

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Re: Writing Lyrics into Prose
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2009, 03:54:00 PM »
Alliteration is having whole lines start with a similar sound.  This is another layer of artistry that an author can add to a poem.  The best example of alliterative poems that I know is this one:

An Austrian army awfully array'd,
Boldly by battery besieged Belgrade.
Cossack commanders cannonading come
Dealing destruction's devastating doom:
Every endeavour engineers essay,
For fame, for fortune fighting-furious fray!
Generals 'gainst generals grapple, gracious God!
How Heaven honours heroic hardihood!
Infuriate -- indiscriminate in ill --
Kinsmen kill kindred -- kindred kinsmen kill:
Labour low levels loftiest, longest line,
Men march 'mid mounds, 'mid moles, 'mid murd'rous mines:
Now noisy noxious numbers notice nought
Of outward obstacles, opposing ought --
Poor patriots -- partly purchased -- partly press'd
Quite quaking, quickly 'Quarter! quarter!'  quest:
Reasons returns, religious right redounds,
Suwarrow stops such sanguinary sounds.
Truce to thee, Turkey, triumph to thy train,
Unwise, unjust, unmerciful Ukraine!
Vanish, vain victory!  Vanish, victory vain!
Why wish we warfare?  Wherefore welcome were
Xerxes, Ximenes, Xanthus, Xavier?
Yield, yield, ye youths, ye yeomen, yield your yell:
Zeno's, Zimmermann's, Zoroaster's zeal,
Again attract; arts against arms appeal!
--Alaric Watts

Most of us don't have that amount of energy or dedication, but it can be a wonderful thing to have alliteration in a poem.  It can create a flow to the words that is just as pleasing to the ear as an end rhyme might be.
Chi pò, non vò; chi vò, non pò; chi sà, non fà; chi fà, non sà; e così, male il mondo va.

Offline blgarver

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Re: Writing Lyrics into Prose
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2009, 06:08:47 PM »
oooooh yeah I forgot about alliteration.  Haven't used it since high school English class.  I will keep that in mind.
I'm a videographer by trade.  Check out my work if you're a writer that needs to procrastinate.  Not as good as Rhett and Link, but I do what I can.
http://vimeo.com/user1855060/videos