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Messages - megarows

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Well, in the version I read mordred tricked him and stole it so aurther plunged the lance of Longinus into it. Morgana was there to heal him, though responsible in ways, because it addressed a rebalance and it was her duty, somehow related to her Wiccan position(one queen for each direction)

That... sounds different from what I read.  What source is that from?  Also where did the Lance of Longinus come from?  Arthur's spear is Rhongomyniad. (scroll down)

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Off the top of my head(and mostly from the book Lancelot du Lethe) aurther suffers a fatal wound to his stomach, from mordred, I can't recall but it's either from the lance of Longinus or Excalibur I thought, although maybe just mordred poisoned blade. He gets ferried across to Avalon where the three sisters ( it mighta been 4, but I think one died before the end)including morgana and morgwuis were waiting on the shores to heal him, though he could not quite return to the mortal coil. Afterwards Lancelot looses his memory and wanders until his prophised return. Sequal to mad Merlin, both books are quite good, and Merlin the wanderer is a lot of where I get Odin is Merlin from.

That part of the myth always seemed odd to me; Morgan le Fay is directly responsible for Arthur's death as she stole Excalibur's scabbard which granted Arthur immortality.  So this could also be further hinting that like Arthur, Mac is supposed to be immortal.



Arthur on the left, Mordred on the right.

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DF Reference Collection / Re: Etymology of Angel Names in DF
« on: July 06, 2015, 09:46:43 PM »
Im interested, but Im not finding an mention of it, at least not in the link you provided.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uni_(mythology) has the link to Astarte.

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I thought Lilith was just a made-up story by some dude who's wife cheated on him or left him, so he had a story added about a deceitful whore of a First Wife of Adam?

Would trusted scholars be so petty?  Anyway, she existed elsewhere in myth first.

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DF Reference Collection / Re: Etymology of Angel Names in DF
« on: July 06, 2015, 09:09:48 PM »
I understand the spatial difference, but there is a link in the mythology, I think via Phoenicia.  I don't know if it applies to Lilith.  See Minerva, and the Ishtar / Astarte influences.  And lamia is how Romans translated Lilith.  Perhaps for the etymology that Foxed notes.

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DF Reference Collection / Re: Etymology of Angel Names in DF
« on: July 06, 2015, 08:27:16 PM »
Might be something to that, Lilith was originally Mesopotamian and the WCVs speak ancient Etruscan.

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DF Reference Collection / Re: Etymology of Angel Names in DF
« on: July 05, 2015, 08:50:50 AM »
@Serack: Done (spoiler tags / text reflow).  As yet another caveat, the Unicode nbsps revert to plain spaces when you edit and have to be reinserted, so I'd recommend saving in an external text editor if you ever go that route.

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DF Reference Collection / Re: Etymology of Angel Names in DF
« on: July 04, 2015, 11:36:51 PM »
I especially like how you used colors and alignment.  Here's one of my attempts at using tables.

Jim's Author/book recommendations

The only formatting I might have done differently is that since the list is so long, compartmentalize each numbered section into a spoiler code so that they can  be expanded or compressed individually.

Did that for the intro but need to reflow everything for the rest because the spoiler tags add horizontal padding.

FYI, I found the Unicode non-breaking space will prevent wrapping in these tables.  It is the character " " instead of " ".

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DF Reference Collection / Re: Etymology of Angel Names in DF
« on: July 03, 2015, 11:39:04 PM »
Oooooooh, someone's using the tr (insert table) command!

Very impressive.

Fair warning on that, as I found out the hard way: there doesn't appear to be a way to control any table/tr/td attributes or styles, especially nowrap, or style="white-space: nowrap" in HTML5, and   didn't seem possible either.

So, for long lines of text, they'll cause the first label column to have decreased width, wrap, and look inconsistent.  I had to manually linebreak and flow them.  It's not quite 100% on an iPad in portrait now, but it's close.

Done deal now, but something to keep in mind if you want to convert a list to a table.

edit: on a completely unrelated sidenote, a strategy/TD game on my iPad (Kingdom Rush: Origins) got an update with a new hero character, a fallen angel.  Named Lilith.  "Noooooooo!"

edit2: added Deirdre's coin with Tami's theory and Dina's etymology to Anduriel.

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DF Reference Collection / Re: He Couldn't Lose [SG Spoilers]
« on: July 02, 2015, 06:33:41 PM »
I don't read any of it.  I listen to audiobooks, which makes almost no sense with comics.  My take on the way things go in terms of relevance:

1 - WoJ: However, they tend to be quite fae-like and often not specific.
2 - Novels: Later is better than earlier.  There are some number of retcons and changes to things.
3 - Short Stories:  Most of them seem to be more "fun" than part of the lore.  Mistakes can be made.
4 - Comics: See 3.
5 - TV Show:  Well it has to go somewhere.
6 - Fan Fiction/Speculation:  What I am trying to say with all the work that we do, it can all be wiped out by one piece of verbage from JB.  There are quite a large number of theories about different things.  Many of them directly contradict one another AND have ways of tying to the lore.  There are things that will likely never be reconciled.  Will we ever find out who fixed LC?   Who ran Harry off the road?  What was the grand plot behind the attack on AT?  I have theories on all of them, but none of them can be proven.  For example, we recently discussed Maggie spending her summer vacation on DR (which I still don't know where Quantus got that nugget from).  EG and I were discussing why Maggie might not be affected by the bad vibes.  I see where that makes sense from an author's standpoint, but struggle to find a way for it to come out of what has been written about DR.

Fair enough.

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DF Reference Collection / Re: He Couldn't Lose [SG Spoilers]
« on: July 02, 2015, 03:27:26 AM »
Missed that DM ref.  That's definitely a contradiction between DM and the common reading of SG.  And I am so not going there with some time travel or mirror universe thing.  WttJ doesn't contradict either.

I think Bob just gets kicked every time the lore "evolves" in newer books.  (Knights of the Blackened Denarius?)

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DF Reference Collection / Re: He Couldn't Lose [SG Spoilers]
« on: July 02, 2015, 12:48:49 AM »
If you're interested in the lore here, I think reading Into the Jungle would be relevant to your interests.  It's why Hecate is significant, and why the statue in SG isn't "just a statue".  I don't particularly even like comics, but that's where the lore written by JB for this is, and so you miss that if you skip the comics.  Read it, re-read the relevant WoJs having done so, think about the statue in SG, and decide for yourself.

Re: rituals, all the text and WoJ canon thus far is that they are dark.  Every single time.  I suppose you could consider Harry shanking Lloyd Slate to be a good deed in some ways?

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DF Reference Collection / Re: He Couldn't Lose [SG Spoilers]
« on: July 02, 2015, 12:07:29 AM »
Kumori resurrected a Human and broke one of the 7 laws.  It was black magic.

Which mantles were created by Black Magic Ascension?  For all we know the Faerie Queen Mantles were created originally by TWG.  We actually have no information about their origin.  All we have is an explanation that a Darkhallow, done correctly, would create something with powers of a "God" (does that mean Mab like, Molly like, MW like, Hades like - we have no idea). If that being was subsequently killed on Halloween, we have no idea if that became a "mantle" and passed on.

1.  Perhaps she did, but the guy wasn't tainted by it as far as we know.
2.  Hecate's mantle was created by an ascension ritual.  ("Into the Jungle")
3.  Butcher gives more info about the origin of the fae queens (and Erlking) here: http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,11033.msg494103.html#msg494103
4.  The fae queens' -- humans with mantles' -- "original base of power" came from Hecate.  Not TWG.  Hecate got shanked on the stone table.  Hence why the statue of Hecate in the Underworld shows the fae queens.
5.  If the original base of power of the fae queens (humans) was from a human (Hecate), and human sacrifice (ascension ritual), then I don't really see how they could have insinuated themselves into atmospheric weather systems before humanity existed.  And please, no time travel theories, or TWG will kill a kitten.

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DF Reference Collection / Re: He Couldn't Lose [SG Spoilers]
« on: July 01, 2015, 09:59:57 PM »
I guess I can see how "against humans" explains the RCV bass cannon and Kumori rezzing that dude, but how do the mantles created by black magic ascension rituals avoid being objects of evil?  Or is it that the side effects go to the creator alone?

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DF Reference Collection / Re: He Couldn't Lose [SG Spoilers]
« on: July 01, 2015, 05:07:22 PM »
If Harry is any indication, the Fae created and bear Mantles because of natural processes: to protect themselves, to protect others, to fight and/or survive better. Remember, Mab doesn't spend her days partying or swimming in mountains of gold: she fights Outsider incursions, she kills traitors, she disciplines the mightiest army Earth has ever known. ("Power has purpose," says Mother Winter in CD.)
Nature is not some flawless harmony where everybody gets what they want. Natural processes always conflict with each other- often to the detriment of nature itself- but that doesn't make them any less natural. It is natural for humans to dislike being cold (because cold is dangerous): therefore, it is natural for humans to build shelters. The resulting houses are no more artificial than the rain wearing them down.
Similarly, Mantle creation is a natural process. Unhealthy, yes- for the Fae involved, and perhaps even the world. But it is not unnatural, or unusual, for any creature to seek power.

You are getting hung up on the verbiage of the word "nature" and missing my point, I think.

The concept of nature as gaia is not my viewpoint.  Nature is not some monolithic whole.  It doesn't matter wnat natural behavior is for humans.  All that matters is when you hold back Lake Mead, eventually your shit breaks and everyone in Cottonwood Cove has a real bad day.

You can say Hoover Dam is natural, the water will not care.  You just drown.  It is not a value judgement, it is not the plot of Final Fantasy VII.  It is gravity, cause and effect, thermodynamics, entropy, inevitability.

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We know that the fae queens have used their Table to increase their Power, and can assume that some (but certainly not all) of that was Human Sacrifice. 

It's the only known way mantles get created in DF.  Sure, Butcher can define an alternative, say... petting kittens... but it is fundamentally the same for what I am saying.  You have X number of human lives or kitten pets that go into the mantle.  Each is worth Y energy.  However massive your human sacrifices or harem of kittens is, it is finite.  Nothing escapes entropy, not magic in DF, not even the sun.

And sure, if you keep up sacrificing on the stone table and adding energy, it will extend that.  But never infinitely.  And the fae queens remain vulnerable to other things as we saw in SK and elsewhere that an untainted atmospheric weather system would not be.  Which is the same reason you can no longer drive over the Hoover Dam and they built a bypass.  Which is the same reason Shardik was created in The Dark Tower.

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DF Reference Collection / Re: He Couldn't Lose [SG Spoilers]
« on: July 01, 2015, 07:43:44 AM »
Yet these mantles manifest themselves through frost and blossoming flowers. If they're inventions of human sin, why aren't Summer Queens followed by streams of blood? Why is it that howling winds- not dying screams or tortured sobs- herald the Winter Lady's arrival?
Because the Mantles show themselves through clear natural phenomena, we may assume they are creations of nature. Natural creations? That remains to be seen. But there are plenty of situations where nature establishes a symbiotic relationship with human life and humanity's 'artificial' constructs.

Why didn't using the red court's bloodline curse, powered by human sacrifice, drive Harry insane?  For whatever reason, we have situations where sometimes something created by black magic is innately tainted, and others where it is not.

My point is not that mantles secretly have goatees.  My point is they are artificial constructs with a finite amount of energy.  Whether they were created by petting kittens or murder.

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When Harry killed a man to protect his daughter, that was also nature. A natural instinct equal to any falcon call or palm leaf. Remember what his id said? "Protect the offspring."

Man is an animal and part of nature, sure.  And a beaver will construct a dam just as man does.  The difference in these things is the scale of consequences when what man (or beaver) creates inevitably fails.

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Humanity itself endures. The towers and dams don't matter, they're just byproducts of life- human life. Judging us by dams is like saying all Dalmatians are going extinct because dog shit can be washed away.

I think it is a question of scale.  Man would not survive the beams or Tower falling in The Dark Tower.  It would end all life, all reality, every universe.  Just like that.  Man did not build the Tower.  The Tower as such is a fictional invention of Stephen King, but it is also a metaphor.

Yes, the Hoover Dam breaks, very sad, but Soviet Bear marches on.  It is not an extinction-level event.

Something goes wrong with the fae queens, the weather gets messed up.  Likely to kill more people than Hoover Dam from SK's description, but again, it's not like climate change is an extinction-level event or anything, amirite?

But is weather alone the only way fae queens have intimated themselves into natural processes?  Is that their worst failure mode?  And what about the dragons, if they are mantles as well?  What about Hades, and his prison of souls?  What would be the consequences of that dam breaking?  We already know from the text that Demonreach's prison and the Outer gates are two "dams" that woud destroy us.  Granted, those latter two are not natural processes being usurped, but they remain systems with entropy.

Humanity may survive many of these things.  But past a point, the consequnces would be an extinction-level event.  Maybe not necessarily the end all of realities like the Tower falling, but as far as we're concerned, game over.

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